The Path To Purpose with Doug White

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Doug White 0:00

Not just before you retire. When you're in the academy, realize that this is a job. This will end on your time or somebody else's time. I mean, God forbid a car crash, an injury, something can take you out of this. You need to be preparing for retirement the day you start and understand that this is a job.

Announcement 0:18

Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice, and encouragement they need to lead courageously.

Travis Yates 0:29

Welcome back to the show. What an honor you've decided to spend a few minutes with us here today. And today's guest, uh, I'm really excited to talk about. You're going to love what he has to say and what he has been doing. His name is Doug White. He spent 30 combined years at the intersection of service and sacrifice. First is a security forces specialist in the U.S. Air Force, advancing the U.S. Special Operations Command. After 9-11, he volunteered for active duty, helping build SOCOM's protective service attachment in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. He earned his honorable discharge in September of 2007. In 1998, Doug launched his 25-year law enforcement career in West Central Florida, working patrol, shaping the next generation of field training officers and instructors and commanding high-risk scenes as a certified bomb technician. He rose to the rank of lieutenant before retiring in 2023. Doug's the founder of Tell This Story LLC, author of the excellent book Hiding in Plain Sight, keynote speaker, and a number of other things. I'm looking forward to getting into it. Doug Watt, how are you doing, sir?

Doug White 1:35

I'm doing fantastic, Travis. It's um man, thank you. Thank you. It's an honor to be here and to spend some time with your listeners. This is this has uh been a long time coming and a great honor. Thank you.

Travis Yates 1:47

Well, Doug, I I may my my dates may be wrong. I think we met in person about a year ago.

Doug White 1:52

Yeah, right. Coming up on it was last September at Wounded Blue.

Travis Yates 1:56

Yeah, Wound of Blue conference. And man, uh you I and I if I remember right, you had you had spoke once or twice before that, and you had a big keynote speech at the Wound of Blue. And so I I've been obviously I've been speaking for many, many years, and I'm all I always love to take a look at, I wouldn't call you a news speaker, but I said, hey man, this this is you know, Doug White's getting thrown out here in the lines, then this is a big major conference, and he's got a keynote here. Let's just see how he does. And man, you blew me away. Like the best way I could describe it to the audience that has not seen you speak is it's just natural. Some people have a natural, very few people have a natural ability to just speak and relate to the audience. You have been blessed with that by God because there's no other way to get it. I mean, everybody can teach themselves to speak better and to communicate better, but very few people can do that naturally. And that was my impression of that. And uh, I told you that that day. And and I I guess have you been told that before in your career? Did you see where that helped you? I just kind of want to hear your thoughts on that.

Doug White 3:02

You know, it's it's funny, but to go back to what you said, I had spoken one time before, just about three weeks prior to that, and it was a completely different message. It was for uh Project Lifesaver, and I was speaking mostly to clinicians and caretakers. So I I every time I speak, I tailor my message and and you know, to whatever it is that the audience needs and what they're looking for. So um, yeah, first time on stage that size and and speaking on that particular subject, um, and to follow John Kelly and Tom Rizzo and uh you know John Mattingley the next morning. I was I was definitely uh swimming with the big fishes, and of course, I've I've been a huge fan of yours for quite some time and meeting you in person. I was just uh starstruck and and honestly scared out of my freaking mind. Um as far as the public speaking, I've um, you know, my dad was a great storyteller. Uh everybody in his family is a great storyteller. And uh if they weren't a cop, they were a teacher. So um I guess the the gift and the desire or the passion to uh to impart something to people is kind of in my DNA. And um, I mean, I I I was a contract instructor for Homeland Security for years. Uh, after 9-11, uh I was an advanced training instructor. I mean, I just I I've been in front of classrooms a lot and have developed my own curriculum. And it just um it's a passion of mine. So I guess that comes through. So I'm I'm very gracious that uh that people think that I'm a good speaker. So thank you for that.

Travis Yates 4:33

Well, and I I can't wait to see. I mean, is wherever you are, I'm gonna try to be. It's it was really a pleasure. And I know uh it's been an interesting year for you. I want to get into that, but before we do that, I I think just tell the audience, Doug, kind of how you got here. I briefly your career, what you did, you know, and kind of where why you do what you do today, because I love it when people spend a few decades in law enforcement, but then when they get done, they say, Hey, I'm not done. I'm gonna continue this. And I feel the people that are effective and do it well are no question. Uh, and you know, you're you're led by a higher power, so to speak, and you're you're led to do that because you have no reason to do what you do. It is difficult to do what both of us do and speak and write and and to stay engaged when it's really a young man's game. Uh, so I guess just I'll open this up to you and just tell us a little about your career, about yourself, and kind of how you ended up doing what you do today.

Doug White’s Service Path And 9/11

Doug White 5:28

Man, that's uh that's uh right now a 33-year journey coming up. So I'll try to cram it and condense it as much as I can. Um born in Central Florida, raised here, uh, spent some active duty time on the uh the uh the far west coast out in uh well, it was now joint base, Lewis McCord. It was McCord Air Force Base at the time. And um I enjoyed my my military service. And uh in 1997, I got done with my first active duty tour and went to the action reserves, and uh was lucky enough to get a spot here at uh headquarters U.S. Special Operations Command down in Tampa. And um that was great, but uh that was never the end goal. The end goal was to get hired with the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office here. And uh, you know, the the home team, and that's that's the only place I applied for, and that's where I was going to work. And um, I got picked up as as a reserve officer, a reserve deputy. And um a week after I completed uh the reserve academy, they called me and said, Hey, do you want to get paid? And I said, Easy answer. Yeah, yeah. So I I looked at my FTO and I said, Hey, I just got hired. He goes, Yeah, not until you write that missing person's report. So I I hand wrote, yeah, back in the day, before the turn of the century, I hand wrote uh the report on the way down to the operations center to to sign up to get paid. Um I I loved my career. Uh it was wonderful. I um I became an FTO at 18 months, which was uh unheard of, but my prior military experience was security forces, which is law enforcement and the Air Force. And um, so I I already had the gift and the knowledge, and uh, of course I took myself way too seriously, which is uh almost the theme of the first book that I wrote that which came much later. But um yeah, uh 9-11 came along, and uh before the first tower came down, my phone rang and it was the command saying we'll see you in the morning. And I said, Check, see you in the morning. So I showed up at the main gate of McDill at on 9 12 at just before 5 a.m. And um I would spend the next 37 months and 18 days there at the command.

Travis Yates 7:35

Well, I I want to I want to stop you there because that's such a seminal moment. I want you know, there'll be people there'll be people listening to this that are 33, 34 years old that don't understand this, but um if you were in law enforcement, I mean really anybody's but I I mean here's where I was. I was uh I was 30 years old. My first child was about a year old. I was working graveyard as a sergeant, I'd come home, I was sleeping, and I don't know, 10 30, 11 o'clock, my wife came in there and said, uh, hey, a plane flew in to the World Trade Center. Now, my mindset at the time was what idiot flew a Cessna plane into the World Trade Center, they're gonna lose. I mean, because no one could even ponder that, right? And so I got up about 12, 12:30, and I walk in there and I look at the television and I said, What in the world? I mean, did you of course like I came in and told you? And I I remember going to work that night with this sense of just pissed off beyond recognition. So pissed off, I looked into joining the military. We we had a handful of people that literally drove down the next day and because you could sign up for the reserves or national, whatever, and you you're gonna maintain your position in the police department, that's federal law. You go off and serve and come back. I mean, I was so I wanted, I needed an outlet so bad. You know, ultimately I made the decision with a one-year-old at home and and things like that to not do that. But you actually had a place to go the next day. So I would imagine you were just as pissed off, if not more. I mean, I I don't think people today, I mean, they a lot, so many people just don't understand that. I mean, because you it's a different world today. We're I mean, we we look at everybody today like they're just innocent little angels and nobody would ever do harm to anybody. But that was such a wild time because it it radically shifted law enforcement and mindset and what what can be expected. I'll just I'll kind of leave it for you and let you continue, Doug.

Doug White 9:38

No, and I absolutely it did. And and to that point, um, you know, I was gainfully employed in two different places. So even though I was working full time at the sheriff's office, uh, the command was gracious enough to say, hey, we'll work around your schedule if you want to come here and stay here. So I um even though I was working at the sheriff's office on my days off, I was at the command. So I was on 180-day orders leading into 9-11 anyway. I just actually the week prior completed uh uh a six-month set of orders and uh had re-enlisted, which is crazy. I I re-enlisted on September 4th. And had I not re-enlisted, my enlistment would have been done. My total commitment to the Air Force would have been done at midnight on September 10th. Wow. So I yeah, so by by nine hours. Um uh so yeah, um, I got to the base and I I volunteered for six-month orders and said, hey, when we get to five months, we'll we'll reevaluate because we we know there's gonna be an issue. We just don't know how long the issue is gonna be. And um, within three months, they said, we've got you for a one-year contract. It was a mandatory recall. And um I volunteered uh again and again and again in my total commitment. It was just over 37 months. And um it it was um it was a mixed bag. I met some of the uh not some of the I met the most professional warriors, men and women, uh at that command during my my decade in service at the command. And um I would have to say those three years post-9-11 were the most uh memorable of my active duty years and uh the most formative for me as as a leader, uh as an airman, as a trainer, as a dad. Um just uh it it was incredible, just incredible. And there's more about that in my book, and I don't want to riff on those guys because I would just uh man, I'd be talking for hours and telling stories. But um in November, uh very early November of 04, I returned to the sheriff's office. And um, I'm not a the kind of guy that can uh sit back and relax, so I jumped right back into it. Um rode with an FTO for about a week, became an FTO again um almost immediately. And um we were eight months pregnant when I returned. We my wife, Michelle, was pregnant with our first. So in December of that year, hopefully you were only gone seven months.

Travis Yates 12:09

I don't know the math there.

Doug White 12:10

Uh 37 months, but I was it was still a McDeal. So when I wasn't living out of a suitcase and traveling with the boss, I was home. So we had that, Doug.

Travis Yates 12:21

Come back to the eight month or eight months. No, I was gotta clarify that one.

Doug White 12:24

Clarifying, I was gone from the sheriff's office for 37 months. Um uh gone from home quite a bit, but home quite a bit.

Travis Yates 12:33

But if not, we got to figure out where John Kelly was during that time period.

Doug White 12:36

Uh John Kelly was still in South Florida. He didn't he did not know me at that point. Uh and by the way, John says hi. I spoke to him this morning. Uh, anyway, so getting back to that, I I returned.

Bomb Squad Work And Hidden Stress

Doug White 12:47

Um, I took a little bit of time off when my daughter was born and um wanted to try out for the bomb squad. You know, I'd been interested in in uh bombs and bad guys since I was a kid. I mean, I grew up in a patriotic household. I was very aware of what was going on in in the Middle East in the early 80s and in Libya in 86, and I'd always followed that stuff. I had great interest in it. And my my military time surrounded uh operational and theoretical counter-terror. So got to try out for the bomb team. You know, 85% of all terrorist attacks happen with bombs. And if I'm not a tech, I'm missing 85% of the game, right? So tried out for the bomb team, and I made it the first time and I spent uh almost six months.

Travis Yates 13:30

By the way, just so our at least our audience doesn't know, not easy, not easy to try out for a bomb team and make it.

Doug White 13:35

No, and especially in July in Central Florida. Yeah, you're you're walking around with 125-pound suit with a no air conditioning.

Travis Yates 13:42

And there's a lot of math and a lot of weird things you got to think about. Like I was involved, I wasn't on the bomb team, but I I was a commander of a bomb team and and and dealt with a lot of those tryouts, and and uh some of the smartest, most uh, you know, actually some of the smartest, uh, some of the weirdest, some of the craziest. Uh, you know, they're no question, a different, different breed of people, but I was just so impressed, man. So just so impressed. So it's not easy for what your accomplishment is not easy. I just want to make sure our audience knows that.

Doug White 14:12

No, there's you know, it's not, and it, but it's a great deal of fun to get paid to blow shit up. Um, so yeah, I I did that. I started promoting through the ranks, uh, went to the training division for a while, ran a couple of academy classes. And um when I was in patrol, I was either an FTO or an FTO supervisor all the way through the the rank of lieutenant. Um now, long story, and I'm sure we're gonna get to that, but um I was aware that I was having some of the, I guess, some of the issues that, well, that we didn't talk about back then, uh, sleeplessness, nightmares, uh what I thought was depression, uh, you know, low-grade inflammation, pain, hypervigilance, all of the things that now we're all talking about. We didn't talk about them, but I was aware that I was having those issues as early as about probably 2004. And uh I used overcommitment and um more tasks and more certifications, more jobs, more overtime to compensate, basically trying to outrun all of those things that I knew I was I was experiencing. And uh it worked until it didn't. Uh in 2019, I I had a um an epiphany moment that changed everything. And um as a result of some of the things that were going on in my life at that time, there was an IA case. Um it's fully documented in the book. I talk about it on stage and everything else. And uh after a four and a half month um IA case, I was demoted from lieutenant to deputy. I was a historic demotion. And um, you know, there are mixed f mixed feelings from um um from advocates and and even uh opponents that believe that I was treated harshly. But that notwithstanding, uh it led me to where I am today. So I spent the last uh just about three years of my career as a deputy working patrol um in Hillsborough County. And I retired in July of 23. And um it's funny because people were asking me about over the last six months when I when I said I was gonna retire. They said, Well, what are you gonna do? What's next? And um it it turned into a joke and the million-dollar question. And um, you know, people would say, Well, guys like you don't know how to quit. You do you don't know how to stop. There's gotta be something. So I thought about, you know, doing bomb work, doing uh being a contractor, going to work for one of the large um soft contractors here uh in the Tampa area. Um I got my master's degree because I was gonna teach undergrad. And uh, you know, all of the things that people thought I would do and that I fell into the trap of, yeah, that sounds like Doug, let's do that. And finally, it uh when I was leaving the district on my last day after my little cake party at the at the district, somebody said, So what are you gonna do? And as a joke, as a joke, Travis, I said, I'm gonna write a book. And faces kind of went like deadpan, like uh about what? I said, about all of this. And I just smiled and walked away. And it it was a complete joke. You know, people had told me for years you should write a book, but uh I I was dismissive. I'm too lazy to write a book. That's that's stupid. But um when I retired though, I found that I got more dark than I did uh during my troubles. And uh so I sat down and started journaling, which is something again I'd been dismissive of for more than a decade. And uh I found that the feelings and the stuff that was coming out of me were just I couldn't stop it. And um I read that journal and saw that I'd been speaking to myself as a as a victim. You know, I I wrote my hero's tale as from a bystander standpoint, and um I had to sit with that for a while and like, why am I speaking to myself this way? I'm nobody who's ever met me would ever say you're a bystander or a victim of anything. And um, so I sat with that, and what came out of that and those lessons learned became hiding in plain sight.

Demotion, Darkness, And Writing The Book

Doug White 18:15

And um the goal there was just to write and publish a book, and I did that. But became a bestseller, and I won't be an international award.

Travis Yates 18:25

Yeah, I I I hate to interrupt you, but I mean it's more than just a book. I'm so dumb. Uh I I saw Doug White wrote a book, hiding a plain sight. I go, that'd be an interesting book. I can learn how to, you know, keep myself secure from hackers and hiding, you know. I I didn't even look past the title, but then when I got it, you gave it to me, I read it on the plane home and it knocked me out. I mean, I'm sure you've heard this. I mean, everybody listening to this right now, you have to go get this book. It is it's the most impactful, vulnerable, powerful. I can't even think of any more. I mean, it's an incredible book, even easier. I think I've read most of it on the way home on the plane. Uh, but it's it's pretty incredible. Uh, much of it I read, I I saw myself in it, and I think most cops that read it are gonna see parts of this are themselves. And so I know you've got another one coming out, but that I I tell you what, that is uh it's it's something else, and it all the awards it's won is well deserved. I want to go take you back, John. So I mean, Doug, I want to take you back. You started having these struggles on the PD and you knew it. Did any and and you your outlets, did anybody notice this? Did anybody pull you aside and go, hey, I know you're working 190 hours a week, I know you're doing this, I know you're doing that, I know you. Did any leader, supervisor, man, anybody go, Doug? Anybody? No. And that's my problem with leadership and law enforcement. Oh, no, that's my problem. I gave you a training video, but right in front of them, it's happening, and their answer to it 99% of the time is an IA complaint. That was the answer to you. That's the answer to so many other people. I hear those stories all the time for struggling people. So don't give me your bullshit that you care, that you understand wellness, that you understand what's going on. They're sitting in their ivory towers and they're making these judgments, and they know, they know that Doug White for two decades has been an outstanding employee. And instead of a hand down, we're gonna slap instead of lift up. And I have talked to leaders that are the opposite of this. Uh, you know, uh, retired Sheriff Mark Lamb, uh um now Chief Matt Thomas. I mean, we've we both had conversations on this show about what they did. I've talked to their employees that, by all practical purposes, had a fireball offense, but these guys saw the good in that and rehabilitated him. Somewhere in law enforcement, we've lost this, Doug. And I think we've lost it in the last decade because I can remember two, three decades ago when you would see an officer struggling. And yeah, there may be an investigation, but duly there was we're gonna we're gonna save this employee because they're worth saving. Is that your take that this has been sort of lost in recent years?

Doug White 21:25

Yes. And and that was the focus of of the second book that I did. Um, you know, I I've got to say this, Travis. I I believe everything you just said, yes, but uh, you know, of the 18,000, nearly 18,000 law enforcement agencies in this country, there are a lot of good leaders that are that are doing good work. They may not all be at the at the highest levels of the executive levels that can really affect uh cultural change, but there's good sergeants out there, there's good corporals, good lieutenants that are really doing a lot for their people. And I I think that needs to be Highlighted more. Um, you know, I was just uh commented on a post on LinkedIn today that um, you know, it's it's leaderships, it it is their sole purpose to ensure that their people are whole. And that starts with one doing the work themselves, identifying their own gaps and and making sure that they're squared away, and letting their people see that, hey, you know, I I I had a problem with this, and we can talk about this. This is survivable, but then for them to sit down and say, hey, that was a shit call that we were on yesterday. Okay, let's talk about this. Let's let's go get some coffee. Hey, you you were late today. You've never been late for anything. You good to go? Let's let's go have some coffee, let's talk about this. And instead of, hey, I'm gonna write you up for being late. No, bro. Why is this why is this troop who's never done anything wrong, who's on the top of their game always? Why are they slipping? Find out, and then when you ask them, do something with that answer. Uh yeah. You owe it to the profession, to yourself, to your people, to that family, to the citizens. I mean, you you owe it to everybody. And you're you're right.

Travis Yates 23:09

Yeah, you're right, Doug. There are many, many good leaders out there. The problem is those stories.

Doug White 23:14

There's some turds too.

Travis Yates 23:15

Yeah, the problem is those stories aren't so prevalent. And we've got a podcast coming up. I'm kind of waiting for his book to drop, but it's Broken Arrow Chief Lance Arnold. And I had a lunch discussion with him, a very fascinating, uh, exceptional leader. And he told me something that I very rarely have heard from leaders. He goes, My job is, you're right, their job is to make them hope. But he goes, My job is is when the day they retire this department, that they are thriving at a higher level than the day they started. Absolutely. That they love this profession more than the day they started. And that's almost the opposite of what we see, right? I mean, people are just scratching to get to the end because they're so miserable oftentimes.

Doug White 23:48

Yeah, military people, prisoners, and first responders have a countdown to when they get out. Yep. I mean, yeah. So uh yeah, how much time do you got left? I I was I met with a firefighter yesterday. A buddy of mine have known the guy 20 years. I'm like, bro, you're a year in the drop. What are you gonna be done? Well, you know, I'm doing the math, and I'm like, come on, man.

Travis Yates 24:09

Come on. Yeah,

The Family Myth And Real Leadership

Travis Yates 24:10

you talk you can do this. You talked about the dark place when you retired. And well, I've got a lot of thoughts on this because I I was just having a conversation. Well, with it was Dr. Mark Sherwood, who was just on this show um a few weeks ago. And we were having a conversation before the show, and and because I'm three years in retirement, just hit three years. And I would say the first couple of years was like, this is like I I never expected, I wouldn't say it was dark, I would just say it was very confusing. And and you know, I look at Dr. Sherwood and this there's nobody that's got it more together than him. And he basically told me, he goes, Yeah, same thing happened to me. I said, What was the what was the hardest thing, Mark? And he said, the realization that nobody really cared for me. Nobody really cared. Like if they were my friends when I was on the department, it was because I could offer them something or I had a rank that could assist him. He said, But the minute I left, I seemed like he said, I had a couple of friends, but what I thought I had, he said that he said that realization that it wasn't, it's not really what they say, right? Because we we we we we lie a lot to these officers. This is a family, and you care for you. Yeah, you're just laughing like I'm laughing.

Doug White 25:19

It's the greatest ever told.

Travis Yates 25:21

Yeah, it's really wow. I mean, at the end of the day, hey, it's a job, it's a job, it is your number, it is, and that's it. I mean, but we can't tell people that and let them and expect them to put up with that toxic environment. So we got to lie to them and tell them it's a family. And so I just wish I'd known about it earlier because it really hit me, it was really difficult. And then I think there's other things involved almost physically and mentally, which is that dopamine and that that risk aversion and that thing that you loved and that I loved. I mean, you were a bomb tech. So I mean, so you've got to replace that with something, right?

Doug White 25:53

And I was tracking with canine as a lieutenant. I I was in fist fights as a lieutenant. Starting fin, I was subduing bad guys as a lieutenant. Foot chases, car chases, I was active.

Travis Yates 26:06

Yeah. So what I would say to anybody that maybe hasn't retired yet, you need to replace what you're you need to find that replacement before you retire. Like, whatever that is. Like if you're an adrenaline junkie, go find a hobby, right? This is that's adrenaline.

Doug White 26:21

Let's let's take that all the way back. Not not just before you retire. When you're in the academy, realize that this is a job, this will end on on your time or somebody else's time. I mean, God forbid a car crash, an injury, something can take you out of this. You need to be preparing for retirement the day you start and understand that this is a job. Now, I will be the first one to tell you I overinvested, I over-identified. I mean, I was the job. You know, if if if you don't want to be um, you know, taken out by a bad guy uh, you know, during a physical confrontation, you better learn how to fight on the ground. If you don't want, if if you want to win a gunfight, you better be at the range every day or every week or every two weeks. And I I was the guy. I mean, I I lived and breathed. I was the dude that never said no, always answered the phone, and I loved every bit of it until the day I found out that didn't love me back. Yeah. And uh, you know, because I I I bought into the great lie. We're a family. Now I I will say this whether I believe I was treated fairly or not at the end of end result of my case, um, I prayed for grace and I got it. I was able to keep my job, to keep my pension, and to move forward to retirement. Whether that's the grace that I wanted or not, it's grace nonetheless. So I am grateful for that. And I am grateful because all of the things that I experienced had to be experienced for me to be having this conversation with Travis Yates today. And um, I'm a firm believer. And in uh Travis, to go back to the the got dark after I retired. You know, I was this thing for 30 years in two uniforms. I was a shaved head enforcer. I scared the scary. I mean, it's it's what I did, it's who I was. Well, you were almost built for it, Doug. And people I know, people don't know you.

Travis Yates 28:08

I mean, you're about six foot four, six foot five.

Doug White 28:10

I mean, you are almost I'm I'm only six one, but I I present that way.

Travis Yates 28:14

You do you identify as six four.

Doug White 28:16

I I saw a picture of John Kelly and I standing together today, something he posted, and I was like, man, I thought John was so much bigger than me. He's really not. Oh, John's a little guy. He's a little guy.

Travis Yates 28:24

He's spunky though, but he's a little guy.

Doug White 28:26

He is, he's he's fiery. But um, you know, when I retired, I woke up the next day and I was like, man, I was these things, and what am I supposed to be now? And uh to try to to search into that, um, you know, it it should have been a realization to me the day that I left. Uh, I went to all the places, I turned in all my kits, signed over everything, and um, you know, I was no longer, you know, uh the line item budget number. You know, that last day when you have to drive yourself around and do the walk of shame to turn in all your stuff. Um, that's the last data point that most first responders get to tell them concretely how the organization felt about them.

Travis Yates 29:07

You know, when you pay for your own cake, the fact that they turn your key access card off the next day tells you all you need to know.

Doug White 29:14

Buddy, the next day, the lady walked me to her office door at Benefits, pointed down the hallway, and said, You can wait in the lobby for your ride. She didn't even walk me to the lobby. I'm like, brother, I was a boss here 25 years. I have killed for this place. I've left my I was the guy who left my niece's christening for a bomb call out. That's the guy I was. I'm not proud of that. It was rock and roll and dedicated back then. Holy stupid and unhealthy in the rear view. But, you know, it what after I retired, I started looking back and what I thought was my purpose in life, military service and law enforcement service to my community. I thought that was my purpose. And I was a little dismayed to realize it was never my purpose. It was my path to purpose. My purpose is what I'm doing right now because I've never been more fulfilled professionally doing anything than what I'm doing now. And it's it's been it's been a blessing, man. It really has.

Travis Yates 30:13

Yeah, and I would I would submit to you, and I think you understand this, is all that happened, as Roman says, you know, there's a reason for everything to get to you where you are today. And and so you come out of the chute, you write the book, you start doing a little bit of speaking, and then in January, you basically take a hiatus, you disappear off social media, um, and you come back, and you've come back with a vengeance. But explain the thoughts on on that. And I I think I probably already know because it's it's disgusting sometimes being doing some of the things that we do, right? I mean, everybody's a guru, everybody's an expert, you know, everybody's the you know, they're using AI to all be the the end all be all. And Lance Arnold told me one day, he goes, you know what, I I knew you long before everybody had an internet resume and everybody had their own channel, right? I mean, so it's it's when you're in the when you're in the speaking space, it is there's a bunch of frauds, there's a bunch of wild stuff, there's a bunch of things out there that it's just very disgusting, and and I've wanted to pop out, you know, myself. So I'm very curious to hear your thoughts and kind of what you did in that hiatus.

Doug White 31:25

Well, I know you to be a man to speak your mind, whether it's going to be popular or not, and whether it's gonna get hits or likes or any of that stuff. Um, so I'm I'm gonna take this opportunity to say some stuff that I've not said yet.

Quitting The Noise And Building HAL RA

Doug White 31:38

And it's uh I'm probably gonna feel some backlash, but whatever, bro. Um, so yeah, I I started speaking about first responder fitness, wellness, mental fitness and wellness, because it was based on my story and some of the things that I found that that helped me. And I felt that I needed to be in that space. And uh I was using my story as as my credibility and the pedigree to be able to do this, and it was it was going well. And it was I was making a difference. I was getting messages from people, hey man, this saved my life, or hey, I read your book, I've been sober two months now. You save just all of the wonderful things. And I was like, man, this is this is fulfilling. But to keep that going, to get the message out to other people, I had to stay on social media and stay engaged with that. I don't know how to do social media, man. So I'm learning by watching other people, and you get snapshots of people saying stuff, and I'm like, hey, I I can understand that and I'm I'm all for it. Let me see what else this person is saying. And then I just find out that the law enforcement wellness space, I guess, and and this is a blanket term, and it's not everybody, there are some very good people doing some very, very solid work there. And um unfortunately they have to climb uh above all of the noise of the people who who are at different stages of their healing and their journey, but they're selling themselves as gurus. And I think they're doing my personal opinion, is they're doing more damage than good. And they are charging exorbitant fees to go um tens of thousands of dollars to speak for an hour or two based on I was a cop for X number of years. Okay, now this this sounds shitty. It really does. And it's I don't mean this to sound as a generalization, but if you're a first responder and you did a year, you did a year more than anybody else. Okay, you were a first responder, you signed up, you did the thing, respect. But you can't say that you did six years for some place and retired because of whatever reason, and now you're gonna come to me and talk to me about resilience. I've got 25 years of the 12th largest law enforcement agency in the country. My last year we were on pace to break a million CAD calls for service because the year prior we had broken a million CAD calls for service. We were busy, buddy. You can't talk to me about that. No, I've I I believe that I can learn something from everybody, but I'm not gonna pay you tens of thousands of dollars. You're not gonna be my coach, I'm not gonna be in your mastermind group, I'm not gonna do that because I don't feel like you're not talking to me. So I I saw a lot of that people wanting me to endorse them, and I'm like, man, this is freaking middle school with better lighting. This is dysfunction with good PR. And I just found it disgusting. I'm like, man, the people, the things that they're saying, you know, trauma is not a uh not a competition, but here's my trauma. Like, well, wait a second, I I don't agree with with this. And you're charging people money for this. And like that it doesn't feel right. So I just um I pulled the plug in December. I did uh I think you were my second to last podcast. Uh I haven't done a podcast episode in seven months. I just started posting on LinkedIn last week, and uh I just went silent, man. I I tried to figure out what is it that I'm supposed to be doing here because I feel like uh I found the answers to the test and that I'm I'm kind of a jerk if I don't share that with my friends. Like there's a moral obligation that I've made it through, and I should share this with other people. And um, I looked at the book, I looked at what I was doing, and I, you know, where my passions uh were, and I noticed that the through line through every bit of this was leadership. And and to your point, leadership has a responsibility in the in the health and wellness of their people and obviously the culture of their organizations and the profession. And um I wanted to strip everything down. And Operator Syndrome by Dr. Chris Free was a uh a study that I found um quite by accident in uh January of 23. And he wrote and published the paper in in 2020, but I found it in 2023, and it's about the uh the interconnecting uh injuries and illness that were being seen in special operators, uh, you know, low testosterone, TBI, circadian rhythm disruption. It just it was a whole mess of interconnected stuff. So I looked at that and I was like, man, this is showing up in my patrol car. This is me, but I wasn't an operator. So uh it's in the first book. Um, and uh I wanted to put together something for all first responders so they would see themselves in this and not just say, oh, operator syndrome, I'm not a special operator, this doesn't mean me. No, it does mean you. Chris Free has said the same thing. And um, so I I researched operator syndrome even more. And uh I should note that I I actually took the paper to my my primary care physician and said, This is me, this is how you treat me. And he did, and it worked. So anyway, uh to make this long story even shorter, I adapted Chris Free's uh operator syndrome for all first responders and called it high allostatic load responder adaptation. I put together a research paper, I sent it to Chris Free. He and I are uh uh corresponding uh pals. And I said, Hey, what do you think about this? And uh he said this is a terrific paper. Um he also said that my book was the um was the perfect case study for the applicability of operator syndrome to first responders. And um said, that's it. I I've got something here. Now here's the here's the framework and the mechanism as to what it is that's going on with us, but how do we get people to lead themselves to to make themselves better? And then how do we hold leadership responsible? So I I put all that together, and over the last seven months, I've put together the HAL RA framework. I've published it in Caliber Press, the Havoc Journal, and uh Police One. And um, it became the the foundation for the keynotes that I've had so far this year, uh, the latest being at the Southern Police Institute's Alumni Association, and it landed well. Um, so well that I've been invited to be a guest lecturer at the University of Louisville. So I'll I'll be up there in September delivering that to classes and at SPI. Um from that, uh, those two trademarks, uh the imprint framework and leader-driven durability, uh, along with HAL R.A. are the foundation of my new book. Manuscript is done. It is sitting with a publisher now, waiting to see if they're gonna pick it up. And that book now, the working title is Leading in Plain Sight. And it's not thank you. It's it's not just a continuation of hiding in plain sight, it's a completion. And um, it is again, it's the foundation for everything that I'm gonna be speaking about in the um in the future. And um, wherever that leads is where it leads. And um, I'm just I'm open to it. Man, I'm I'm I'm retired, I'm 52. Um John and I, uh John Kelly and I, along with Matt Griffin, were speaking at the the Southern Police Institute's uh conference last month, and uh during uh an open water swim at sunrise uh on Atlantic Beach, we decided we're gonna do a triathlon next year. So um all I'm doing for the next year is is diving into this, speaking to people about it, and training for a try with uh two broken old men.

Travis Yates 39:57

Well, what you said about that frustration and the mental uh mental health space, I actually know exactly if some of the names you're talking about. It's disgusting.

Doug White 40:08

It it is. I think it was more disgusting for me because it's not the room I was supposed to be in.

Travis Yates 40:13

Yeah, this is the room I'm supposed to be in. It's disgusting. Now, I will tell you the leadership aspect, it's just as bad, but the difference is in what you're doing is you're actually bringing substance to the leadership space.

Speaker 3 40:23

Yeah.

Travis Yates 40:23

Um I have been extremely frustrated in the leadership space. First off, you're right, everything is leadership. And so it is, it is everything's leadership. It all ties back to that. And so your transition from what you were doing to this is minimal. It's just, it's just, it's, it's just gonna be more impactful because you've because of the frameworks that you've built out, and that's and it's gonna actually matter. But I mean, I'll never forget uh there's particular leadership guru, so to speak. And this guy, I mean, he's knocking down, he's making over a million dollars a year in law enforcement. I mean, just you know, 200 dates a year. And so he was gonna he was speaking before me at a conference, and I go, I gotta fly down early, and this guy's gotta be crapping gold out of his buttocks, right? I mean, I gotta see what this guy's doing. And literally, it was just fun some funny stories, and everybody laughed, and that was pretty much it, right? Where are the tools? How are we supposed to be better for this? Yeah, I'm never gonna make money doing this, but that doesn't matter. But this guy's never gonna change lives, right? I mean, so yeah, it's just it's just really unfortunate. But that's the passion that that God's laid on you, Doug, and and this direction is is it's you you've landed, and I think you're gonna that your immediate success with this is shows you that you're in the place you're supposed to be in. It's gonna be very exciting, man. I can't wait to hear it. I can't wait to read the book. Um it's just so unique and so powerful. Um, and do you think that silence away made it clear for you? Because I'm a big advocate of people. Right now, I'll go dark on on usually Saturday, one day a week. Not enough, but this day in and day out grind online is difficult. It because I naturally, I'm not some 22-year-old influencer. To me, it's not natural to do. I don't like talking because I feel like it's talking about myself. I don't like doing any of that. Um, you know, LinkedIn is the new, my kids on the on and roll bumper sticker on people's car. Everybody's talking about themselves. It's all disgusting. Um, but do you think that this you taking the height as you did is why you landed where you did? How important is it for everybody to think about? Maybe not taking seven months off, but taking time away.

Doug White 42:38

Well, I I I didn't have a time frame on the time that I was taking. I was just, I knew I was done watching everybody drag around their their bag of trauma from keynote to keynote. And um it it just felt gross to me. So I I just disconnected and and kind of set with myself. And the beauty part of it was when I wasn't scrolling social media to find out what I should be saying or what everybody else was saying, I didn't have anybody telling me what I should think about stuff. So that silence gave me the opportunity to say, hey, what does Doug really feel about this? Don't worry about measuring against somebody's feelings. What does what does the groundwork of of me feel about this? And uh I found it very freeing. And one, I found probably four or five day hours a day, literal hours a day, of me time and thinking time and reading and and just mindfulness, being intentional with my time and where I spent it, and um the creativity that came from all of that um was remarkable. I mean, frameworks, uh a book, a an endorsed paper by the doctor that came up with the uh with the the mechanism to begin with. So um, you know, it obviously it's it's paid off, and I'm still fleshing it out and still just trying to get a grip on it. But um man, it's been powerful.

Travis Yates 44:03

I think the beauty of the framework, Doug, is it's going to be ever fluid, it's going to be ever evolving.

Doug White 44:07

That's the beauty of it. It is, it is. And um, you know, I'm I'm very clear about it in the book, in the paper, and everything. That the the paper is has been published, it's online. You can grab it from my website, and I'm very clear in there. Hey, I'm I'm not a clinician, I'm not a researcher, I'm not an expert. I'm I'm a dude who found this at the bottom of my own life and I used it to change my life. And I am I am just adapting the words to things that we're going to understand because this shows up in the patrol car, it shows up at the EMS station, around the dinner table at the firehouse. Um, it's everywhere. And um so I I just I find it freeing uh because I'm I'm not competing with anybody in the space because nobody else is doing this. Yeah. Um I mean, they're they're they're speaking about leadership, but not from this angle, um, not with their own personal story involved in it. And and I I mean, anything that can hurt me is in my first book. My my demotion, my failures as a uh and shortfalls as a as a dad, as a son, as a as a human being, as a cop, that every one of my fears and and every every embarrassing moment is there for the world. And um, to be able to get up on stage or to have a conversation like this and say, hey man, I'm talking to you today, not because I got it right, it's because I sucked at that and I figured it out. And I don't want you to use my book as a a cautionary tale or or worse, a crystal ball. I want you to use it for what it's for and not step in those same holes and to to get away from social media, to back to your question, to get away from social media and be intentional about my time, my family, and and what it is that I'm gonna do next.

Friendship, Loss, And Leadership With Grace

Doug White 45:50

It's been fantastic. I mean, I I found out who my friends were, uh, because there were some unusual suspects that reached out. Hey, brother, you've been quiet, are you okay? I'm like, I I never expected you to call me or to text me. That's really cool, man. Thanks. And there are people that uh, you know, as I said uh offline, my my dad passed at the beginning of June. And um there were people that have been in my life for 25 years that still don't know he's gone. And there's there's a dude that has has adopted me. And I'm I'm gonna get emotional here because it um for for no reason other than me being me and him being him, he adopted me in this space and uh has has been a big brother. And and it's John Kelly. It should be no secret to anybody at this point that's a big brother. He's he's the little brother, he's so no, he's uh he he has adopted me. And uh, I mean, we talk four and five times a week. Um good, like, hey brother, what you got going on? Hey, head of the gym. You know, we're friends, and when my dad passed, I I let him know, and um he said, I'm here for you, and he he left me alone. And um, and it's it's what I needed, but John lives about four-hour drive from me. And uh the day of my dad's service, I was standing at the door greeting family and all that stuff. I'm I'm the son, so I'm I'm greeting family, and um just trying to keep my composure. And I look up, and John Kelly is standing behind my aunt. He didn't tell me he was coming. I didn't ask him, he didn't say, Do you need me? Nothing. Yeah, got up in the morning, put on a black sport coat, drove four hours with a sandwich in his truck just to be there in case I needed him. He he drove eight hours round trip to stand in the back of the room for 20 minutes and to give me a hug.

Travis Yates 47:40

Yeah, brother, who who does that? Um, real people, real friends. Exactly. So you know that story this was my first tip. If you know John, you know he's gonna do that. My first red flag on the job that something wasn't right, and I there were should have been plenty of red flags, but I was I'm I was like you, Doug. I was just like so this was, I mean, I was so running so fast, I wasn't I wasn't looking around to sort of see these red flags. But my first red flag was my mother died in 2016. One person, the funeral was two hours away. One person from my agency showed up. Uh no phone calls from any chiefs, no phone calls from any of my peers, officers, people that work for me, yeah, but no, no, nothing at all. Now, at the time I blew that off. Ah, yeah, everyone's busy, but but now that I've had time to reflect, that was a huge red flag, right? Because what did what is what did Rudy Giuliana say during 9-11? He said, Weddings are optional, funerals are mandatory from a leadership standpoint, right? Yeah, and uh that says a lot about John. Um, because everybody knows it's lost a parent, especially what that is.

Speaker 3 49:04

Yeah, right.

Doug White 49:05

Um it was very special. And I I had a lot of good old close friends uh who love my dad dearly, uh, who really, really showed up. And again, there were people that that have been in my life for 25, 30 years that still don't even know he's passed because they haven't called back. You know what we do, you know what it's great to know these things.

Travis Yates 49:27

It sucks to learn a lesson, but it's good to know. You know what we do, and I I've pondered this, not that I want it to come anytime soon, but you know what we do in law enforcement, right? Like we all have honor guards, and then when retirees die, the honor guard goes out and they do the little ceremony at the grave site. But that's kind of a scam, isn't it? Because nobody's calling you in retirement, nobody cares about you in retirement. They show more care after you're dead than when you're alive. I've I've seriously thought about telling my wife, I go, I don't need any of that. That's so ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. I don't know. I don't know why that came to mind, but it uh and I'm someone that served in the honor guard for a decade. So I went to many funerals, I didn't know who they were. I always thought it was honorable to do it, but on the other side of it, I'm thinking, you don't give a shit about me for decades, and now all of a sudden you want to show up at a funeral and wish my wife condolences? Get out of here. Yeah. Is that too harsh? I guess I'm being a little too harsh, right? It's probably too harsh.

Doug White 50:31

Who hurt you? Um uh no, man, I I I can understand that. And and and that's valid. That's valid. How come you weren't calling me when I was when I was having problems? How come you didn't call me in the last 20 years? I mean, I um since since my case, March 10th of 2020, I was demoted. You know how many people from the organization has called me to ask me if I'm doing okay, if I got the you know, EAP or if I found the help that I needed through their resources? Less than three, less than zero. Oh, yeah, none, none. And and I I know these guys, I came up with them at the at the highest ranks. I trained some of them.

Travis Yates 51:11

I mean, you risk your life with them. So that's so insane to me, right?

Doug White 51:15

So I I'm I'm not angry. I I'm really not. I uh it was actually funny.

Travis Yates 51:21

That's a blessing because that will eat at your own.

Doug White 51:23

Oh no, no, I I was for a while, buddy. I for about two years, I built my my house in Victimville. I really did. Yeah, and uh man, uh, as our friend Tom Rezzo says, real estate's cheap, there's plenty of room. And there really was. Um, but once I got out of that, I realized, you know, you can be a victim once, but after that, you're a volunteer. And I woke up every day for two years and I gave away my joy for for what? Yeah. People who weren't thinking about me to begin with. Again, it's the biggest lie we've been told. So I uh I put on my big kid pants and I got back to the work of being who Doug White was supposed to be, and that's where I am today. But um, I spoke at a conference recently, and it was a leadership conference, executive leadership, and there were three members of executive leadership from my old organization that were sitting front, row, center. And um, this was a new frameworks, new everything. And I I had to lay out the truths uh in front of three people who should have realized I was talking about some of the things that they did and still do. Not them personally, but the organization. And um left them speechless. And I love it.

Travis Yates 52:32

Well, kudos if they showed up because I can only imagine some of my uh my old peers would would just be.

Doug White 52:37

Oh no, no, they they had they had paid for the week anyway. Um, so they they were going to be there, but they sat there and one of them made a a comment to me before I started speaking. I was already mic'd up and everything, and I'm I'm not gonna get into the comment, but I will say that uh I would like to say that he did it to try to get a rise out of me or to throw me off my game for the presentation that I was about to give for the first time. Um but I don't think he's such a small person, he doesn't realize he's a small person. It's just the way that he speaks to people. And I think it's funny because had it been old Doug ten years ago, um I would have come over the table and taken the teeth out of his head. Yeah, but I'm not that guy anymore. Right. And and I just smiled and uh I answered as perfectly as I could and kind of left him pondering that for the next two and a half hours as I spoke. But um yeah, no, it's it's it's funny. I people like that, and and I guess to really answer your question, people like that, man. Um I pity them because they're never gonna know the privilege of leadership. You know, people talk about the burden of leadership. Well, I'm responsible for this and payroll and that. Yeah, okay, those are the administrative things that the privilege of leadership is being able to use your influence, your positional authority, and who you are as a person to influence or to better someone else's position, their life, to add value to them. And and if you get to add value to them and the organization, that's a win-win. But um, people like that will never know what that feels like. And and I do, I know what it feels like. And I I feel sorry for them that they they're not going to know that. So I don't get mad at people, man. I just like I feel sorry for you because you don't you don't know what this is about. You you don't get it yet. And it's unfortunate because the people under you are suffering because, well, you're just you're just deaf. You you don't know the room you're in.

Travis Yates 54:43

So it's incredible stuff, Doug. I I don't know your faith, but I I know mine, and I can just see the Holy Spirit working in you. I there's it's the future and what you're impacting is you're just tipping your toe in the water, man. And I cannot wait to see what the future holds. How can people find you? How can they reach out to you?

Doug White 55:01

Uh well, I'm on all the socials, sporadically. LinkedIn is where I'm going to be doing most of my work because everything else is just uh it's necessary but gross. So the the bulk of the the mindful content will be on LinkedIn. It's Doug White uh or my website that's just been remodeled, uh Doug Whiteofficial.com. And um my podcast, Tell the Story, will be coming back here pretty shortly, I think. But uh yeah, man. Just uh if you want, just uh type in Google, go to Doug White, Hal R A H A L R A, and it's the first thing that comes up. You'll be able to read the paper, the frameworks, and all that stuff. It's all there.

Travis Yates 55:39

We'll link all that in our podcast notes. Uh I can't thank you enough, Doug, for being here. Um amazing stuff. We're gonna have you back, man. And uh I don't I'm not gonna be able to compete with John Kelly, but I want to be I want to be around you more because there's very few people that make you better, and you're you're someone that makes other people better. So thank you so much for being on the show.

Doug White 56:00

Thank you, Travis. And I'm I'll actually see you in Orlando in October. Uh, Roland Clee has invited me to attend the focus thing. So I'll see you there. That's exciting, man. Roland's doing phenomenal work out there. Oh, he is. Good, good man, good man.

Travis Yates 56:12

I can't wait to make sure he doesn't make you pay. You're on me. So I know it's already it's already taken care of. That's gonna be awesome. So uh if you've been watching, you've been listening, I mean, thank you for doing that. Thank you to Doug White. Thank you to all of you, and just remember lead on and stay courageous.

Announcement 56:28

Thank you for listening to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates. We invite you to join other courageous leaders at TravisYates.org.