Don't Feed The Trolls

0:02 Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice and encouragement they need to lead courageously. Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored that you're spending a few minutes with us here today and this is going to be rather brief. But a comment came in this morning to one of our social media pages after a clip we had posted, and I thought it was so timely to sort of show this to you and explain to you exactly what's going on. The biggest reason most good people that get into leadership positions then just don't make the right decision it really boils down in law enforcement to this, and it's kind of crazy to say is they don't want to get called a name right.

0:48 There's a narrative that if you follow, you never have to worry about anybody getting upset. People may get upset, but usually those are law enforcement people or pro police people and they don't have necessarily the same platform that people that maybe want to push law enforcement into reforms and a bunch of other things may have. And so you know we have two different types of leaders in a profession, one more than that, two specific ones people that ignore the narrative and they do what's right, or ones that just go along with the narrative. And, of course, much of what we've experienced in recent years is a cowardice in the profession, where people are more scared about what could happen to them, what people could think of them, versus just doing the right thing. So we work in a business where things happen a lot, things are deemed controversial a lot and if you just cower down to the folks that are upset all the time, that creates a lot of problems.

1:41 And of course we've seen it in the profession. But this comment came after I had posted a segment of my training seminar on courageous police leadership. I want you to just hear the segment. It's pretty brief. Then I'll tell you the comment because I have a point to show. So here we go. Here is what I. If you want to know what cowards have done to law enforcement and the communities out there, look around, see, look around, see. My fear is what they have done to us is going to be the new normal. It's going to be the new normal that you can't recruit in staff your agencies. I'm already seeing people that are just saying nothing we can do, we're just going to have to downgrade services.

2:23 Excuses. It's the new normal when I hear the Portland mayor, after homicides went up 65% in one year, he comes out and says if you reelect me, I will reduce homicides 10%, and they reelected him. You see, that's how they make the new normal is. They make you think that it's normal and nothing's normal. If I would have told you five years ago what it's like in law enforcement and in our major cities today, you would have sent me to a mental hospital. They're making you believe that it's the new normal and that somehow it's your fault. Okay, so sort of just take that in. You know, I think it was pretty clear what I'm discussing. I mean the opening, opening hour of a class. I'm sort of laying down the foundation of why we need good leaders.

3:05 So it's often hard when you just show a few minutes of an entire day to get context, but I thought the context was rather there. Here's what the comment said. Now I want to read you the comment without any commentary on my end. But then I want to point out something very important to you as a leader, because it may not be a comment to you, but it could be a letter or an email or a complaint or a city council meeting. I want you to be able to recognize when you're dealing with this type of person, and I'll explain exactly later where that is. But because of the comment, we're going to be able to analyze that pretty quickly and let you know exactly why you should ignore exactly what was said. So here's the comment after that clip Quote this clip illustrates the us versus them culture embedded within the law enforcement community.

3:53 He labels those outside law enforcement as cowards. He assumes the worst motivation. Yes, there are liberal politicians who are anti law enforcement, but they wouldn't be able to gain the influence they did if the law enforcement house was in order. There are sincere groups of people who want some sort of legitimate police reforms, but most of the time their churches are businesses usual versus liberal anti law enforcement. So when businesses usual isn't working, they swing to the other side. Something I also notice about this video is that this is an old white guy talking to an all white group about the good old days. My words, but his description. However, for minorities, they are longing for better days to come.

4:34 I don't know how to get there. Law enforcement needs to provide an innovative third option to regain the trust of our communities. Now, that is a lot of words on a very short video, and the reason this is done now are there just people that are misinformed and they just think these things, of course. Are there people, though, that intentionally say these things for a reason? Yes, then are there just dumb people? Yeah, of course. All that's true. I don't know which one this guy is, but the language he writes here tells me it indicates to me he's not dumb. So you can pick one of the other two out. You think it is.

5:14 So I want you to look at this and I'm going to break this down for you. It's important because you may not get in the comment or someone say just this, but they use the same techniques. So they're going to use four different techniques when there's no evidence, when there's no facts, when there's no data. By the way, these are all pretty much worked in recent years, so I understand why they're doing it. They're going to talk about race, they're going to make it an emotionally based argument. It's going to be opinion the vast majority will be opinion or it will be taking data and taking it out of context and making it an opinion. Right, the Phoenix Police Department shot more officers per capita than any department this year.

5:56 Outrage, emotion. Well, there's a whole lot more to discuss there. Right, we need to sort of know the specifics of that. That's what I'm talking about. So it's an opinion, and maybe they make an opinion with using a few of the facts, but it's completely an opinion at the end of the day. And then, of course, the final one is name calling. So what's missing here in this informative you know diatribe comment? What's missing are things that actually matter Facts, data, truths, context. Now, everything that actually matters is missing. Let me go through here and take what I just said. Do you remember the four things Race, emotion, opinion, name calling? Let's go through here and let's talk about that as he writes, because the reason I'm saying this is not to make this guy look foolish.

6:42 There's a lot of folks like this. I'm not upset whatsoever. I'm trying to use this to teach you when this happens to you, when should you completely ignore it or when should you have a conversation? And I'll give you, based on those four things I just talked about race, emotion, opinion, name calling. You would ignore that completely. That's why we're going to ignore this guy, although we're using as a teaching lesson here. But you would want to engage with people if they're not playing those games, because that's kind of a game, they're being played, whether the game they know it or not. That's a game you hear about everywhere. It's not just law enforcement, it's politics, it's health. Everywhere you see they're using race, emotion, opinion, name calling. That's what they're using. Close your eyes. There's time you listen to the news and someone's upset and think to yourself how many things are they saying are actually factual?

7:26 Or is it a mixture of a lot of emotion and to get people upset and then maybe there's some truths in there mixed in, but a lot of its opinion. That's what you really need to listen to and we really, if we're going to ever fix anything, whether it's law enforcement or anything else in this country. We got to get away from this, but nobody seems to want to. This is what this seems to be working right. So here's where I'm going to go through here. This is what this guy says. This clip illustrates the us versus them culture. Now, keep in mind I never said the word us versus them. I never said the word culture I talked about. I talked about people that were creating problems in their profession. Now, at not one point was that us versus them, because the vast majority of people are not creating problems in the profession.

8:09 So that's complete opinion. That's completely his bias to think that he labels those. He's talking about me. I'm not upset, but he's talking about me. He labels those outside law enforcement as cowards. No, I didn't. Nope, I didn't say people outside law enforcement are cowards. I said the word coward but I was specifically mentioning the people that are doing damage to law enforcement. Leaders in law enforcement is when I described the cowards Okay, if you took my full day class, you would know I call people inside the profession that are not leading the right way. So, obviously, complete opinion bias from him. I never labeled anyone outside law enforcement as cowards. So he said and I assumed that they had the worst motivations. Nope, never said that.

8:50 He said that. You see where I'm going here. He says, yes, there are liberal politicians who are anti law enforcement. We agree. I alluded to that. So far, he's gotten one thing right. Okay, but they would not be able to gain the influence they did if the law enforcement house was in order. Once again, where's the facts? Where's the data? Where is anything? Where is anything there other than this is what I believe. Okay, this is what. That's the only thing that's here. There's nothing factual there. It sounds good, it sounds like a gotcha moment, but there's nothing factual there. You, as a leader, a courageous leader, you need to recognize this when you see it, because if I wasn't, if I could have fallen into a three, three day conversation with this guy online trying to outwit him with the with the keyboard.

9:34 No, no, you need to completely ignore it. They want to distract you as long as you're not dealing with crime and safety and law and you're having to deal with this. That's what they want. And yes, I said they. He got triggered because I said they in the interview. But if you think when I say they, I mean the entire world but me, you're insane. But that's what he thinks it means. Right, because a lot of these folks are caught up on words. Certain words trigger them and they automatically assume that you did it to trigger them. That's why when I read anybody go, this policeman shot this guy and this policeman. It was a racist act. No, it's actually racist. To say it's a racist act with no evidence, that means you're putting race into it that this is what's done and we have not been unable to deal with this.

10:21 And what I'm trying to tell you is, when you deal with somebody like this, here's how you deal with it, you don't deal with it. Okay, let me go on here, because he just said some good things here. In a minute I think. He says there are sincere groups of people who want some sort of legitimate police reforms. Absolutely agree. This wasn't a clip, but if you would have watched, my entire day I discussed that in detail. Anybody who's been in my training knows that I help you to delineate the difference between a good group and a bad group, and he's absolutely right. There are many legitimate police groups that kind of get thrown to the side because they get lumped in and I've very close to my class, but I don't even know where this came from, because this clip didn't even mention anything about that. But he once again, it's his bias is what he thinks.

11:02 He said. Most of the time there's choices are business as usual versus liberal, anti-law enforcement policy, so when business isn't working, they swing to the other side. Once again, that's all opinion. I have no idea what he's talking about here, something I also noticed about the video. Now, whenever you hear this, something I also noticed. Or, on another note, you know it's coming right. Here's a great example In 2009, the Cambridge police incident happened and then President Barack Obama had an evening time press conference and he got asked a question about this misdemeanor arrest in Cambridge Massachusetts really an innocuous, it's a misdemeanor arrest for obstruction, right. But all of a sudden the president's talking about it. He kind of gives this sort of diatribe, how this guy's my friend and I don't know what's going on, but I know this, there's been issues of this, issues of that but then he stops midway.

11:50 Nobody remembers this part and he, on another note, he made some sort of transition to where he stopped talking about that incident and jumped to another incident. Then he's talked about police historically have been used disproportionate behavior to African-Americans, and he starts going down this rabbit hole which this had nothing to do with this arrest, nothing to do with it. He jumps to sharks, so to speak, and talks about this global problem with racism and law enforcement. That's what this guy's doing here. Here we go, he goes, he's about to jump the shark and he does it. He indicates it by saying. Something I also noticed is this is an old white guy. Now, I would say that's an opinion, but I think that's probably factual, probably one of the first few things truth he said.

12:32 I guess I would be considered old. I'm in my early fifties. I mean, I love to think that technology has improved, but okay, let's just go with it. I don't argue with him. This is an old white guy talking to an all white group about the good old days. That has to be my favorite line. How does he know it's an all white group? Who watches any videos and go how many blacks are there? How many whites are there? First off, it wasn't an all white group. I was there that day. Maybe in the screenshot in the back of people's necks, he figured it was an all white group, or he could just assume it was an all white group. But it's completely fabricated. It's a complete lie. And maybe he believes that.

13:13 But it didn't matter, I was there, I know it. It's a lie. You see what's going on here, though. Right, this is. Let me go down to my top four words again Race, emotion, opinion, name calling. We're in the name calling segment now. That's usually the last ditch effort, right? You're ever having an argument with somebody and they can all of a sudden call you a name? They're out of arguments, right? So he kind of he can't let it go. He says I'm an old white guy, I'm talking to a white group and it harps back to the good old days. What's he alluding to here? I'm not gonna do what he does and make an assumption, but first off, I never said the word good old days. I never said that word. What I'm talking about cause. In the video I specifically say if you think things are going great, look around. Anyone with the brain knows what that means. What's the violent crime rate? What's the retention rate?

13:54 What's the recruiting? How's things going out there when you go to the grocery store, I mean, how's it going? Anyone with the brain knows what I'm referring to is is the state of affairs right now in America. It's specifically in law enforcement. He has now made all this about race. He's the one that called me a white guy, which that was actually true. The fact I'm old is actually true. So we once again. He's mixing truths in with the rest of the opinion to give it some validity, and so I really wanted to just cover this with you so you recognize it. We get so. I see people online arguing with people on social media and they're going back and forth. What you need to understand is a Certain segment of society doesn't care about the truth.

14:34 They don't care about that and by you giving the truth does not segment them whatsoever. There are certainly people that just need to be educated and informed, but that doesn't usually take place online in an argument format, most like if this guy would have watched a video and he thinks to himself Hmm, I'm not quite sure what the mean is behind that. It's just a two-minute video out of eight hours. I mean I'll reach out to Travis and have a conversation with him. That's actually happened a lot. I love talking to people about this stuff and generally most of the time everybody sort of understands it and gets it. But it's much easier, instead of building that relationship and inquiring, it's much easier to sling a little comment, probably make yourself feel better. You stood up for whatever you're standing up for today and move on.

15:15 And it's done to keep me from saying what I'm saying. It's done to tell you when you read that you better not say something similar. Now, that name may not be his motivation because, unlike him, I'm not going to guess on his motivation, but that's the sort of the, the, the. What happens oftentimes from that? And we see so much weakness in leadership that they're just scared of this. They're scared of being accused of something. They're scared of getting called the name and it's hilarious to me. We're scared by it because you know who you are. If somebody called me a white supremacist today by the way, the guys just stopped short I'm really shocked. He didn't, but oh, you know he didn't, I Would laugh because I know I'm not. And then, of course, they've done the little twist to ruin where they go.

15:57 Oh, so if you don't acknowledge it, then you must be. You know they've done this weird thing going on. No, no, stop. We better bring some common sense back, folks, and get back to truths and facts. And you name it now. I didn't have a segment here where I was spitting out data to you, right? But if this gentleman wanted to know, I could have easily spent several hours with him on the phone and I've done it before with people and explaining a lot of things to folks and generally it goes very well. Let me finish this out because I don't want to leave you hanging here. He says the old white guy talking to the all white group about the good old days, my words, but his description, what do you now? He's assuming what I'm describing when I'm talking about how bad things are. We need to get back to leadership.

16:38 Okay, I'll go with that, but anyway. And? But he said my words, so he may know a little bit about defamation law, but anyway, he's did say that. However, here we go, here's the, here's the emotion and the race. You combine them together, you go far. That's what you're seeing here and that's what law enforcement has been enduring for several years now, and we have been unable to combat that. My words, but his description, however, this is when it gets deep. He ends with this one pretty well done. However, for minorities, they are longing for better days to come. Did I read that right? However, for minorities, they are longing for better days to come. Now, let me stop right here.

17:19 He's now speaking for all minorities. If I did to him what he just did to me, how dare him speak for all minorities? Do I think All minorities are longing for a better few days to come? No, no, I think all people are. But to someone like this, it's always about race, right? I think everybody it's an American would obviously love for the next day to be better than the day before, even if you think things are going great here and I'm sure you know there's lots of issues now, but even if you think those are going great, you probably look forward and you go. Man, I'm longing for even better days. Of course we are. That's the human spirit, he said. But they just don't know how to get there, which is what we try to do here every day is inform people of facts. What will, what will make them not get there is this crap we're dealing with right now, once again, before words, race, emotion, opinion and name-calling that doesn't get anybody anywhere.

18:06 How many years have we been talking about a minority issues without facts, without data, without you know, analyzing whether it's working or not? And it's getting worse, right? So no, no, we do need to make things better for everybody, but you don't get there by stuff written like this, because this is all emotionally filled. He says law enforcement needs to provide an all innovative third option To regain the trust of our communities. I'm so glad he put this in there, because I've talked about this trust scam a lot. Yes, I think we need to provide an innovative third option. That's what I'm trying to do. That's what many people are trying to do, because this option is not working. I think the guy probably knows that my ideas based on data and facts are not going to be what he thinks they ought to be.

18:50 He has to keep it on the emotion, right? What do you do when all the reforms get adopted and things get worse, kind of we're at in many areas? You don't believe me. What in reform, portland didn't turn down? What in reform, seattle didn't turn down? La took about all of them. All those environments are worse off today. So what happens when that goes wrong? You could either say hey, you know what? Maybe this wasn't the greatest idea. Maybe the mission of law enforcement is law in order, reducing crime. Maybe it's not about making sure everybody trust us, because criminals could trust you and they're still going to commit crimes. Right, you can't force people to trust you. You can do with best job you could possibly do, be as professional as you possibly can, and if they still don't trust you, there's not a lot you can do for it.

19:34 Hey, listen, at one time I was in high school, had plenty of hair, thought I was something, even though I wasn't, and there were a couple of girls that would never trust me and at the end, hindsight, they were probably pretty smart not to, but I did everything I could to get them to trust me. They're not gonna trust me. This trust metric has been used at nauseam to get us to just jump, but it doesn't matter. Law enforcement right now is one of the highest trusted professions on the planet. We've been pulling in Gallup in third or fourth place for 50 years. You know who's not very trustworthy right now the media, politicians, bunch of people that are saying stuff like this, right and so. But I'm glad he said it because he wants this innovative third option.

20:16 And what I'm trying to say when I'm gonna get back to it the very beginning is what I said in the clip. The option Isn't a third option. The option is get back to the mission. Okay, get back to the mission. Your job is to reduce crime. The minute we tell a police chief, you're fired. In two years of crime goes up. Guess what happens? He gets back to the mission, but right now they don't fire chiefs for high crime. They may fire him for not doing some innovative third option some community member sent a comment on. But they're now. They don't get fired for crime, so it shouldn't be surprising that they don't seem to care about crime. So, but this is why we're judging people based on these false words, virtue, signaling, emotions and feelings. And so, to wrap this up and this took a lot longer than I wanted he wants to lob Accusations based on race, emotion, opinion and name calling in the hopes that any alternative that may not be what he thinks is embraced.

21:12 He's likely not a bad guy, but he certainly has an agenda. That's not law and order, because there's not a clip you'll listen to with me in that doesn't get back to that agenda. So listen, I know when I post things, this stuff's gonna happen. I'm not gonna come on here every time somebody posts a negative comment. I generally ignore all of them. This is what I'm telling you to do now. If there's something factual there, I'll pay attention to it, but I'll generally ignore them if, because most of them are this stuff like this. But this one had so many things in there I wanted to kind of use it as a lesson for you, for you to sort of pay attention to that and really that it's gonna be your decision, but you certainly don't have to give them any credibility, right? So there's no reason for anyone to have credibility.

21:53 That's. That's not telling the truth or they're just soaking everything in an opinion and using emotion. There's just no reason to give that person any credibility. You may have to give them your time based on your assignment, but there's no reason to argue with them to give them any credibility whatsoever. You see what's going on here, right? None of that is based on facts, and this profession has a choice. Our leaders have a choice. We can ignore the rhetoric and get back to the mission of crime reduction, or we can keep getting sucked down that rabbit hole until we don't exist anymore in any sense or fashion, and then everybody would be crawling for the good old days when you can't even walk outside your house because it reminds you of a Purge movie, right?

22:36 So it's. We need to recognize that. I turned this into way longer than I anticipated, so I'm glad you hung on, but I hope it helped. We need to understand what's being said to us and be able to extract whether it's factual or there's just an opinion, because you know what opinions are good for. We won't repeat it here, but you know exactly what they're good for. Thanks for hanging on. Thanks for being here, man I'm. So, if you like it, give it a five-star or whatever. We're trying to get some traction. This year We've got an entire website dedicated to our podcast. We just started that. Everybody's listened to them on different platforms. I get it, but we wanted one place where they were all for, and that's yatesleadershipcom Yatesleadershipcom, and every podcast has its own page.

23:22 You can send it out to your friends, but obviously you can still catch on all the different streaming platforms as well, so we're trying to be a little more intentional about that. We've got some fantastic guests coming up in the weeks to come. This was just sort of an unexpected episode and I'm hoping it helps some of you. Some of you may think this guy's rambling on, but I think there was enough in there. Well, maybe you'll get help. Thank you so much for being here and just remember lead on and stay courageous. Thank you for listening to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates. We invite you to join other courageous leaders at TravisYates. org.