WEBVTT
00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:11.039
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice, and encouragement they need to lead courageously.
00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:12.960
Welcome back to the show.
00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.679
I'm so honored you decided to spend a few minutes with us here today.
00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:27.760
And I'll just sort of tell you if you have not listened to last week's episode called Hiding Behind a Suit and Robe, that's sort of a precursor to what you're going to hear today.
00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:32.719
You need to know the entire story of Deputy Anthony Gann in its whole.
00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:35.200
And last week's episode will tell you that.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.600
We'll put a link of that and an article here.
00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:44.159
But I think if you really want to understand this episode to its fullest, be sure to back up and listen to that episode.
00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:49.119
We're going to give you enough today to sort of understand what we're talking about, but that's sort of the whole picture.
00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:56.320
So consider this kind of a part two, but it's really more than that because I'm honored to have on Tiffany Yant on the show.
00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:03.679
She's the founder of Give Blue Hope that provides financial assistance to the families of first responders killed in the line of duty.
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:11.359
She's a resident of Nebraska, and she has intimate and personal knowledge of the story of Deputy Anthony Gain.
00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:15.359
And after last week's episode, she reached out to us, and we're really honored to have her on.
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:16.799
Tiffany, how are you?
00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:17.760
I'm good.
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:19.120
Thanks, Travis.
00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:23.280
Well, before we get started, you obviously have a high interest in law enforcement.
00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:30.560
You're not law enforcement, but I I don't want to be presumptuous, but I think that's because of your father, Officer Ross Bartlett.
00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:36.719
Can you just kind of quickly tell our audience about your dad and sort of uh why you do what you do because of him?
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:37.519
Sure.
00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:49.280
So my dad was a police officer, uh volunteer firefighter and criminal investigator for over 30 years here in Nebraska, um, all over Nebraska.
00:01:49.280 --> 00:02:00.640
Um and on April 12th, 2024, my dad, serving as a police officer for Ceresco Police Department, was killed in the line of duty by a willful, reckless um driver.
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:07.439
And so since that day, obviously our entire world came crashing down around us.
00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:12.879
Um, I grew up bleeding blue because my dad was a law enforcement officer, my mom was a dispatcher.
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:18.000
Um, but since that day, I truly, truly do bleed blue now.
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:24.240
Um I am a huge advocate for law enforcement and for first responders in general.
00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:32.560
Um, my dad is not here because somebody broke the law, because somebody didn't keep our law enforcement officers safe.
00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:42.879
Um, somebody chose to be so distracted on their phone that they did not see his red and blue lights on the side of the highway as he was conducting a traffic stop.
00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:55.680
And what I've learned since that day, since I decided to advocate and continue his legacy through Give Blue Hope, is that he wasn't the first and he hasn't been the last.
00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:04.479
And our law enforcement officers are dying every day, whether that's by gun violence or stabbing or a vehicle.
00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:05.599
They are dying.
00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:08.560
They are going to work and they are not coming home.
00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:10.800
Um, and that is just tragic.
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:14.560
That is just a huge tragedy, and it shouldn't be that way.
00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:18.400
Yeah, Tiffany, I think the general public, they don't have a clue.
00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:20.000
They don't understand, nor should they.
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:22.000
The media doesn't really report this stuff.
00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:25.599
It's not in their interest to report this stuff, and we all know the bias there.
00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:29.680
Uh, but I, you know, my my wife's father was killed in line of duty.
00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:31.520
We briefly discussed that before the show.
00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:38.960
She was just four years old, and I saw from afar coming along much later, the destruction that continues in that family.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:43.759
And, you know, just just uh to this day, you know, Father's Day and Christmas.
00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.560
I mean, and so I feel for you.
00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:47.919
Uh, this is fresh for you.
00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:49.919
This is just a couple years ago.
00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.800
Uh, how how are you and your family doing?
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.280
Um, you know, we're we're managing.
00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.240
I will never say that we're okay because we're not.
00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.639
Our life has been completely changed.
00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:03.520
And, you know, my dad is just not here.
00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:10.080
He he went to work that day and he put his gun on, his vest, his badge, he kissed my mom goodbye.
00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.879
He told her he loved her and he told her he'd see her in a few hours.
00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:14.159
And he didn't.
00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:22.879
And so our family is the one that has to pick up those pieces, and we have to figure out how do we live in a world where he doesn't?
00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:26.560
How do we live in a world where he went to work and he didn't come home?
00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:28.480
Because that is not normal.
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:29.680
That is not normal.
00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:32.160
You should not go to work and have to worry about not coming home.
00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:40.160
But that is the reality that every law enforcement officer faces, and that's the reality that their family faces.
00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:47.600
Um, so we are taking what happened to us and what happened to my dad, and we are trying to make the world better.
00:04:47.600 --> 00:05:01.680
We're trying to advocate and we're trying to let the media know and let the public know that this is what the reality for our police officers are, and this is what it means to protect and serve, and this is what it means to hold the line.
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.240
My dad died holding that line.
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:16.000
Yeah, that's I just want people to understand how important and courageous this is for what you and your family are doing, because you go two different directions when these tragedies happen.
00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:22.879
I mean, you can go hide in a corner and be full of rage and and everything else, or you can go, I'm gonna make a change for the good.
00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:24.480
I'm gonna live my life with a purpose.
00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:31.519
And this uh this may have happened to me, but it also happened for me to live this purpose in the future and make life better.
00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:38.560
And so uh your organization, Give Blue Hope, will you know, give us the website real quick, and we're gonna get on to what we're here to talk about today.
00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:52.160
But I wanted to front load it with why you're here because I think it's so important that you're not a foreign law enforcement officer, you're not a head of the IECP, you're here advocating with what happened to Deputy Anthony Gann as a civilian, and we need more people just like you.
00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:53.839
We need more people in the profession just like you.
00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:55.759
But what's the website of your organization, Tiffany?
00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.480
Sure, it is um www.givebluhope.org.
00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.360
Yeah, everybody go to that, subscribe to it.
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.040
If you can, donate to it.
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:06.480
Incredible organization.
00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:14.399
And Tiffany, you you contacted me after we did the podcast and article about Deputy Gann, and just to sort of give our audience that maybe has not listened to that episode.
00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:15.680
It's only 20-30 minutes.
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:17.519
You really need to go back and listen to that.
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:24.720
Uh, Deputy Gann uh got involved in a uh deadly force incident on October 23rd, 2023.
00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:27.040
Uh it was real justified by the sheriff.
00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.600
Uh multiple experts, including myself, reviewed the case.
00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:31.360
It was a justified shooting.
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:34.800
And a district attorney there uh took it to a grand jury.
00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:42.879
Instead of making a decision, like leaders should do, he he took it to a grand jury, and we have documented on this show how those grand juries are abused.
00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:56.480
I mean, there's a reason why this old saying is you can indict a ham sandwich at a grand jury because you don't get to put up a defense, the prosecutor gets to place the narrative the way they want it, but they took him to a grand jury and they indicted Deputy Gann for manslaughter.
00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.839
Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna add to that right there.
00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:10.800
The very first thing that happened that is tragic in this is that the grand jury was not informed of Nebraska's use of force policies for law enforcement.
00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:12.480
Yeah, we're we're gonna do that.
00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:15.839
Well, that's not that's not the first crazy thing that happened.
00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:16.800
But no, no.
00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:24.800
When you when you look at this, when you look at this, Tiffany, um, there's a lot of things that were done wrong, in my opinion, and of course, your opinion.
00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:28.000
Uh, but I just want to give our audience sort of how we got here today.
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:35.279
And so they they indicted this officer that was found to be within policy, a young officer, a good officer, great reputation.
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:43.600
Uh, he he had to take action, unfortunately, to defend the lives of himself and other deputy and the lives of the people traveling that roadway.
00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.560
A long, crazy pursuit sort of happened before that.
00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:52.160
Listen, the details of that, go read that article that's posted here, go listen to the podcast.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:08:00.560
But he he unfortunately, like many officers around the country, found himself facing a manslaughter or murder charge for literally doing his job.
00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:03.199
And so, and how this was manipulated.
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:09.920
And once again, you're gonna hear me say things like my opinion or your opinion throughout, because let me tell you how these cowards operate, if you're not familiar.
00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:18.160
And we're gonna be talking, we're gonna be naming some names today because they're behind this, is they love to use the law, defamation law, civil lawsuits to shut you up.
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:26.560
The last thing a district attorney would want is this information out because they love you know they so so the fact that you're able to come on here and talk about this is so impressive, Tiffany.
00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:29.040
But we also want to protect yourself and us.
00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:35.679
And so obviously, we're gonna be speaking today from a based uh from our opinions based on what we've observed.
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:40.799
Now, there are there are some facts that we'll talk about, these facts I've just talked about, how how this even happened, right?
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:46.000
I took this to a grand jury, and many grand juries uh can be manipulated.
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:51.759
I wasn't present for this one, so I don't know the old details of this one, but many grand juries in general can be manipulated.
00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:53.919
But that's why we're gonna hear me court to say that.
00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:55.919
Uh, but it's not just our opinion, Tiffany.
00:08:55.919 --> 00:09:03.440
Uh, we have juries' opinions too, because what happened was uh this ended up going to a jury trial.
00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:10.960
I was brought on as an expert witness along with Jeff Martin out on the West Coast, who's a very well-known expert witness in use of force.
00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:18.240
And not only did they do what they did at the grand jury, but the Friday before the Monday trial.
00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:20.720
So you have to imagine put yourself in Deputy Gant's shoes.
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:22.480
He's been going through this for two years.
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:27.200
I can't even imagine the excruciating agony he's having to deal with.
00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:31.519
Uh that his own department ruled this justified in policy within his training.
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:37.679
He was obviously a well-trained officer, and then he has this happen to him uh through the decisions of others.
00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:43.519
Uh, and his entire case is ready to go, two experts online ready to go.
00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:58.799
And then the Friday before the Monday trial, the judge rules based on and based on a request from the prosecutor, that I can't testify, Jeff Martin can't testify, you can't discuss any of his policies, you can't discuss any of his training.
00:09:58.799 --> 00:09:59.679
There you go.
00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:02.399
Now, let me just tell you how crazy that is.
00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:14.879
When we train law enforcement officers at in the academy or after the academy, we don't say, okay, here's your policy, here's your training, oh, you better remember the public quarreling law in the state of Nebraska.
00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:20.960
By the way, they didn't they charged him with a law under quarreling, which is a crime heat of passion law.
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.120
That's like a bar fight or domestic violence.
00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:29.279
But they didn't, they didn't, they didn't view Deputy Gann as operating as a police officer.
00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:33.039
They viewed him that he's just a civilian out there that just shot somebody, right?
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.720
So from the very get-go, that's pretty wild, that's pretty crazy.
00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:43.759
And then just 48 hours before the trials will start, they say, Oh, this defense you thought you were going to bring, you don't get to bring it.
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.960
And uh, and you were present at the trial.
00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.240
First, give me your impression up to trial.
00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.320
You know, Deputy Gann, you know his family.
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:54.159
Tell us what they were going through.
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:54.799
Yep.
00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:01.039
So I will start with um Deputy Gann worked in the Ceresco Police Department part-time with my dad.
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.039
So that is my dad trained Deputy Gann when he worked for Ceresco.
00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.279
Um, and the night that my dad died, this is how I came to know about Deputy Gann.
00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:17.279
The night that my dad died, I couldn't get my 15-year-old daughter from home to bring her to the hospital because I was at the hospital with my mom.
00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:24.720
And Deputy Gann volunteered to go pick up my daughter and drive her the 35 minutes to the hospital to bring her to me.
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:26.399
He volunteered for that.
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:32.000
And um, he 10 days later was indicted by the grand jury.
00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:41.919
So while all of this is going on, and he knows all of this is going on in his own in his own life, personally and professionally, he still volunteered for that assignment.
00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.000
He still went and brought me my daughter.
00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:47.200
And so I came to know about Deputy Gann.
00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:49.279
I didn't know him before that happened.
00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:56.720
Um, I came to know about him after he brought my daughter to me, and I was doing thank yous um a week later and and wanting to contact him.
00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.320
And then I seen it on the news that he had been indicted.
00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:01.840
So then I started researching it.
00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.360
I reached out, and we have been very close with his family ever since then.
00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:16.320
Um so leading up to this two years that this is going on, Deputy Gann and his wife, you know, their entire life is being put under a microscope.
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.159
And he can't be a police officer anymore during this time.
00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.559
He has to take a job an hour and a half away because he can't continue working for Seward County.
00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:28.240
He had to resign when he was indicted.
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:30.159
He had to post bail.
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.840
He, you know, I mean, all he has to pay for an attorney for a defense.
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.600
And this is just looming over him and his wife.
00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.080
And they're in their late 20s, right?
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.399
Their marriage had just begun.
00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:46.960
They actually got married after he was indicted because their wedding date had already been set.
00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:49.200
So, I mean, you have to think about that.
00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.639
He was several months after he was indicted.
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:55.759
That's when his wedding date had been set a year before that.
00:12:55.759 --> 00:13:00.879
It's crazy that this whole thing just took over his life.
00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:07.600
He went to work that day, he did his job, he chose to be able to come home to his family.
00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:12.000
He made sure that he was able to hold the line for the public.
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.519
And then his entire life stopped.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:16.720
Right?
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:22.639
The life he knew, the life that he had planned, stopped that day that he was indicted.
00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.080
And so they are the strongest people I know.
00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:36.399
They are so much stronger than our family has been because they had to do this and they had to prepare for this trial for two years by themselves, right?
00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:41.120
They couldn't talk to their friends or their families about the details of the incident.
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:50.399
They couldn't talk to anybody other than their attorney about their attorneys, about all the things that they knew that we didn't know, right?
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.600
That had transpired that day and the defense they were going to use.
00:13:53.600 --> 00:14:08.320
And so they were kind of in this little bubble by themselves where there was nobody that was truly there for them because nobody was able to have the insight or the the knowings of what happened, right?
00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:10.960
Yeah, just to explain, just to explain our audience.
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:15.200
So if you're indicted on a felony, you sort of lose the law enforcement connection.
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:24.320
The people in the department really can't be around you and talk to you because there's policies about you know associating with people that are you know being investigated on felonies.
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:29.840
And so it's not their fault, but the pa, so this is not just about deaf being, this happens to officers across the country.
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:36.559
These these things occur, and then their entire world is not only uprooted, but their friendship circle is gone.
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.120
That their their connection to support is gone.
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.919
And you're right, they're sort of out there on an island.
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:42.559
Right.
00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:48.799
And you know, so because Seward is a smaller department, you have to think about it from that aspect, right?
00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:58.000
His friends were law enforcement from Seward County, his friends were law enforcement from Lincoln, from Lancaster, from Omaha.
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:05.120
Like that is the group of people that him and his wife associated with because when you're in law enforcement, you're in law enforcement.
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:08.399
That is who you associate with on and off duty.
00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:13.600
And so they were no longer allowed to be able to talk to those people.
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:32.159
There was actually a court order stating that they could not socialize or speak to or be friends with or, you know, outside of that working relationship, um, with people that were now being called to testify either for him or against him, right?
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:48.799
So you're not just talking about a coworker, you're talking about people that they considered their friends, their family, their blue family, is now not able to be there to support them during the probably most trying part of their of their life.
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:57.679
Um, so so we stood in and we have been very supportive of Deputy Gann and his family um throughout this entire process.
00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:05.600
We we he has attended all of the events that he can attend with our family for memorials and things like that for my dad.
00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:10.799
Um, we sat through every second of this trial behind his wife.
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:18.960
We sat behind his wife because the injustice that I feel has transpired, even by him being indicted, was an injustice.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:21.440
Yeah, let's stop right there before we get to trial.
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:28.320
So, once again, the right before the trial or Friday before, this is the mental leaps they had to make to get rid of his defense.
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:32.960
In Nebraska, you have to be able to prove that an expert's testimony is not relevant.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:39.759
You have to be able to say that uh that that they will not be able to assist the jury in understanding what they're seeing.
00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:40.720
Now that's insane.
00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:46.960
Say what you want about me, but Jeff Martin is one of the foremost experts in video technology and use of force.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:51.440
And there's also things that were placed in that order that just simply weren't true.
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.000
They said I was combative in a deposition.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.000
Now, if that's recorded, you can look it up.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:57.279
I wasn't combative.
00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:00.720
And they said that we overinflated our resumes, which is insane.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:07.519
If anybody, if anything, over 30 years of law enforcement, and Jeff Martin has even more than that, there's plenty of things we couldn't even put in a resume.
00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:12.799
And so it's really insane what they did to sort of cut the legs out of the defense.
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.759
Now, if this was a straight up case, why are they doing that, right?
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:22.640
And so I want the public to understand this is listen, this isn't just about we're holding law enforcement accountable, in my opinion.
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.119
This is about let's put let's make them the most disadvantaged defendant we can.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:35.119
Because I don't see this happening to civilians that can't that that aren't able to, you know, mount their own defense and use their own expert witnesses.
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:39.359
And of course, a judge made the decision based on a prosecutor's recommendation.
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:41.920
You'll have to decide yourself on why that is.
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:49.599
But it certainly seems from our viewpoint, Tiffany, that they were doing this to hurt the defense.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:54.799
I don't know how you can't argue otherwise because you lose the entire defense that you have.
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:56.960
And so let's start with the trial, Tiffany.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.480
You were there for every bit of the trial, and Jeff Martin was there for most of the trial as well.
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:06.240
Kind of tell us sort of how that went, what you saw happening, uh, give us your opinion on that.
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:12.640
Um, I have never seen something so sickening in my entire life.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:18.240
I used to go and sit with my dad while he did court security or while he testified as a police officer.
00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:23.359
I spent many of my youth um in a courtroom watching my dad testify.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:30.000
Um, and I have never seen something so sickening and outraging in my entire life.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.279
Um, Deputy Gann was not allowed a defense.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:39.039
It's not even that he wasn't allowed the defense that he had wanted to use.
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.839
He wasn't allowed a defense at all.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:50.640
How are you going to get up and argue that a police officer has a duty, obligate, and obligation to retreat?
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:56.960
That is what the county attorney's argument was, that he had an obligation and a duty to retreat.
00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:00.319
That is the craziest thing I have ever heard before in my life.
00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:05.119
There is no way that law enforcement has an obligation or a duty to retreat.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:06.160
Yeah, if that's the case.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:15.279
Because they've been made to believe this through the media, through attorneys, through you're right.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:23.680
There is nothing remotely close in case law or the law that says law enforcement has a duty to retreat, because that would be insane.
00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:35.279
Civilians potentially may have a duty to sort of retreat, but law enforcement acting under the color of law to protect the protect the lives of others can't have a duty retreat, or law enforcement wouldn't protect the lives of others.
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.960
And so, but that's the argument.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:39.759
But to put that put that in perspective, okay.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:48.559
If that was the case, then my dad had the the duty and the obligation to not pull over that driver that night, and he could have just gone halfway back to Ceresco.
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:55.119
Yep, he didn't have to stop the driver that was driving 100 miles per hour in front of him.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:58.079
His duty was to that's that's not safe.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:59.119
It's not safe for me to be able to do that.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:13.599
You understand now why the ex, in my opinion, why the experts weren't allowed to testify because we would have blown that up so wide if they said that in front of us, because there's no support for that at all in any law, any case law.
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:21.359
By the way, use of force case law is extensive, it's not like there's new things here, and so that would have been exposed at the highest level.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:26.480
But you're saying the prosecutor just got to say that, and there was very little you could say against it.
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:36.480
There was nothing we could say against it because Deputy Gann was not allowed, his team was not allowed to say that's not true.
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.119
We can show that that's not true.
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.640
We have a witness that will compute that.
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.359
Well, yeah, and we also have a policy that shows it's not true.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:21:14.319
We have policy and procedures for Nebraska law enforcement that says you do you are he was they weren't even allowed, Deputy Gann was not even allowed to have the statement that he signed when he became a sworn law enforcement officer that says to uphold and protect to whatever, whatever that wording is, he was not allowed to show the statement that he signed when he became a sworn police officer.
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.519
That says you'll give your life up if need be to protect citizens.
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:20.160
Yes.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:24.319
He was not allowed to even to even use that as evidence, right?
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:24.720
Right.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:42.640
So the the duty to protect the the obligation and the duty to retreat, that the county attorney argued, that to my family, my mother and I sitting there as the wife and the daughter of an officer that died in Lancaster County.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:51.599
So the very same county that this is being this is going on in, that was the biggest sign of disrespect that I have ever seen before ever.
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:55.599
Because he is saying that my dad died for no reason.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.440
He could have retreated, he could have with home.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.480
He did not have to be actively doing his job.
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:09.759
That is what our family, our opinion of that argument, Pat Condon said that day.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:10.559
That's what he was saying.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:11.680
And I also understand Tiffany.
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:14.000
Officer Ross Bartlett died for no reason.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.359
He could have chose to go home.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:22.960
And I I also understand, Tiffany, uh, from impressions from the trial that that the DA downplayed the high.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.559
I mean, it was a crazy pursuit.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.119
It was 100 plus miles an hour all the way down the interstate.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.920
But he that they actually downplayed that like it wasn't dangerous.
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:30.400
You were there.
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:31.359
Tell us about that.
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:39.359
So that was the other hardest part of sitting through that trial, is my dad was killed by a willful, reckless driver.
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:44.400
So the reckless driver in my dad's case that caused his death was not driving 100 miles per hour.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:45.200
He was on his phone.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:50.240
But the driver my dad had pulled over had been driving 100 miles per hour.
00:22:50.240 --> 00:23:19.519
So for Pat Condon, who is also the same county attorney that prosecuted the driver in my dad's case for felony, willful, reckless driving, for Pat Condon to get up there and look the jury in the eye and tell them that the suspect in Anthony Gann's pursuit was not driving willfully or recklessly according to Nebraska law, is insane to me because that driver was driving 100 miles per hour.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:26.079
He was fleeing law enforcement, he had blown through a stop sign, and he was under the use of mess.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:34.160
So all of those things actually, that is what willful reckless driving in Nebraska is.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.599
That is the very definition of willful request driving.
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:46.720
So for the county attorney to get up there and downplay that and try to make it sound like, well, he really what he didn't cause an accident for somebody else.
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:48.880
He didn't hurt the public.
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.119
He wasn't causing harm to the public.
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.880
There was no safety risk for the public, is insane.
00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:05.680
That is the county attorney's office taking the laws in Nebraska and rewording them and defining them on how he thinks he can win a case.
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:07.759
And that is not his job.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:20.000
In my opinion, the county attorney's job is to take the laws in the state of Nebraska and prosecute anyone that breaks them, regardless of whether or not he can win the case.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:27.680
And I think I think the reason it's so important we're talking about this, because this, yeah, this is about what happened in Seward County, but this is not unique to Seward County.
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:31.200
I mean, this is happening across the country, the law enforcement officers.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:37.440
Uh, as an expert witness, I see these types of things happening to law enforcement across the country.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:42.960
Uh, quite frankly, the the demand by the DA to get rid of the expert witnesses is not unique.
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.880
It kind of happens in all the cases, but very rarely does a judge not see that for what it is.
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:59.519
Because if if this would have gone the wrong way at trial, there were dozens of appeal opportunities because the appellate court would have looked at this and said, What in the world is going on?
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:24.000
So, in my in my opinion, this really wasn't about a police accountability or sustaining a conviction, because this was I just when let when I look at all all of the appeals across the country, this thing more than likely would have been kicked right back to the to the district court because you just can't you just can't do you just can't take defenses away from defendants, whether it's a police officer or a civilian.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.599
And so I I it's it really is outrageous.
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.960
I don't think people understand what's happening to law enforcement out there.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:36.480
And of course, the the end user just sees, oh my gosh, uh the deputy was acquitted.
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.799
So there's there's problems in law enforcement.
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:43.119
Well, no, he should have never been, in my opinion and yours, brought up trial in the first place.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:46.160
The decision should have been made, just like the sheriff made it.
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:48.880
This was a justified legal shooting.
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:56.960
Or, worst case scenario, DAs, bring in some experts to give you an opinion about what it is because there are DAs that do that.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:58.720
I have talked to DAs about that in the past.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:03.279
They show me a case because they don't have a clear understanding all the time, and they get the opinion of experts.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:04.160
And you know what?
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:05.920
I don't even know the answer to this.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:13.200
I don't think the prosecutor probably even had an expert because I don't know of any experts that would have said it was out of policy or against the law.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:15.599
Did they have an expert on their side?
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:21.519
For use of force, no, for sudden quarrel, no.
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:33.359
Um, they twisted the testimony from the um, I believe it's called an SIT team, the SIT team.
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.039
They they used his testimony.
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:40.319
Um and you could really tell.
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:46.160
So that that was their first witness, and you could really tell that um that he was an officer.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:47.440
That's what the sit team is.
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:48.000
They review it.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.240
It's a special task force that reviews it.
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:52.559
Yeah, but didn't they find that appropriate?
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:53.599
That report.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:17.680
Um, so I don't think he testified the way the county attorney had anticipated he was going to testify because the county attorney was very, very flush flustered and frustrated um when that officer testified, because I do not believe that the officer testified in the manner that the county attorney had prepped him to testify.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:25.680
But that was really other than that, and the the video specialist that they had, those were really the only wait a minute.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:33.119
So they they had a video specialist, they were allowed to have a but they blocked, they blocked the video expert from Deputy Gann.
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:40.319
Yes, so um the the prosecution was allowed a very lengthy um video expert.
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:57.200
Um, who came up with me I Tiffany, I apologize, but when I read the order from the judge, the order says there's no need for these video experts, the jury can just decide on their own what they're seeing because obviously civilians have a clear understanding of police use of force.
00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:57.839
No, they don't.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:06.160
The studies show that the studies show that about 50% of civilians will rule in policy or legal shootings out of policy because they why would they have an understanding?
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:14.640
They don't understand it, they don't know so they blocked the video expert for Deputy Gann, but the DA was able to bring in his video expert.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:15.359
That's what you're telling me.
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:33.279
Yep, yes, and that video expert actually did he was an audio video recording expert or whatever, but he actually took all of the audio out of the body camera video, and just all you could hear were the gunshots.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.640
Okay, that was let me let me explain to the audience.
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:49.440
If you take the audio out of the video, you're not hearing these repeated commands from the officers to show them the hands, you're not hearing the the voice inflex of the officers where they clearly were in fear of their life.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.400
It was clear listening to the audio, the mindset.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:29:00.400
In fact, when Deputy Gann started approaching the car, he literally jumped because he was so fearful, in my opinion, when you look at that.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:06.799
So by taking the audio out, you you're trying to give the impression to a jury that that fear wasn't there.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:11.599
You're telling me they did not provide the audio from the video to the to the jury.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:12.799
No, they did.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:16.319
They did provide the audio multiple times to the jury.
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:39.599
However, during this expert's testimony, his whole testimony was based on the fact that he did some fancy things and took the audio out because what, in my opinion, the county attorney wanted the result of that testimony to be was the gunshot after gunshot after gunshot after gunshot.
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:41.839
That's what he wanted the jury to hear.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:52.160
Yeah, yeah, was no, no video, no audio, just the gunshots going off bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, yeah, for those however many seconds.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.079
And I don't know if that's anything.
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:56.079
And like I said, for the audience, I apologize.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.920
We're kind of talking over each other, but we we got to get this in and kind of give it to you in order.
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:01.359
But I don't even know if they did this.
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:08.079
But the other trick that's often played around the country is they'll they'll show a still image with no contact, they'll just show a still image.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:13.440
So do they ever blow up a still image uh for the jury to see, or they leave it there the whole time?
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.279
What is what do you see with that?
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:16.960
Um, yeah, they did that a lot.
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:27.440
My favorite thing, though, was the fact that they were Monday quarterbacking the body cam and the dash cam videos and audios, right?
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:36.559
So they're pausing it, they're zooming in, they're they're replaying it, they're watching it a hundred thousand times over the course of two years, right?
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:44.880
And they're they're zooming in and they're stopping it, and they're at you know, 15 minutes, five seconds, whatever the time frame is, and they're pausing it right there.
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.559
They're like, Deputy Gan had milliseconds.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:49.599
Yeah, he didn't have to do that.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:31:06.559
He did not have the opportunity to zoom in, he did not have the opportunity to look at it from another angle, he did not have the opportunity to see it from Officer Parmer's perspective, he did not have the opportunity to see it from his dash cam's perspective.
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:13.039
He did not get to Monday morning quarterback this body cam and audio footage for our audience.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:14.400
That's called hindsight bias.
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:25.759
And the Supreme Court in Gramby Connor specifically says that they give deference to officers having to make split-second decisions, and you cannot judge their behavior based on information you know after the fact.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:30.400
It sounds like they were trying to impress with the jury and pull all of that in.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:45.519
They absolutely were, because again, they I don't know how many times, I probably I lost count how many times that the prosecution played the the video, the audio, the video, the body cam, the dash cam.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:53.680
I don't even know how many times to the point where me as a daughter of a fallen police officer, I was kind of immune to it by the end of the trial.
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.400
Like it didn't, it didn't shock me.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:02.000
It didn't, I wasn't like, this is so hard, because the first few times it was hard to watch because I was like, I believe blue, right?
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:02.799
This is hard.
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:09.119
Um, but they played it so much throughout their case that I was kind of immune to it by the end.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.359
And I'm like, what are we even looking at?
00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:12.240
Stop playing it.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.519
We've all heard it, we've seen it, you've played it 500 times.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:23.519
Um, but they were 100% wanting the jury to look at it from the perspective of hindsight, right?
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.880
Deputy Gann did not have that opportunity.
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:34.400
He did not get to zoom in on the suspect's vehicle and zoom in to see if he had a gun or a knife.
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.480
He was not given that opportunity.
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.920
That is not how it works, that is not what law enforcement does.
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:48.720
He had milliseconds, milliseconds to determine whether or not he had to fire his weapon.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.160
That's it.
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:51.279
Milliseconds.
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:59.920
Everything that we watched in those videos after that, after he made that decision is irrelevant.
00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:05.359
He did not get to zoom it in, he did not get to replay it.
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.799
He did not, he that is not how it works in law enforcement.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:11.279
You have to decide right then and there.
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:22.079
I can't imagine the frustration of sitting there facing 20 plus years in prison knowing they're saying these things and doing these things, and you could say very little about it.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:28.640
I mean, I'm sure you were frustrated, but what was the overall feeling during this week when they were doing this?
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:41.920
Um, you know, I don't know how WD Gann and his wife were as stoic and as respectful for the justice system um as they were, because I don't know.
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:52.480
I don't it took everything I had to not yell and scream and and and and object to the entire process.
00:33:52.480 --> 00:34:05.359
Um so they they were very stoic and they were very respectful of the system, and they they were carrying a weight that they did not let anybody see.
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:24.400
And if you if you were there when the the not guilty verdict came back, the screams that came out of Deputy Gann and his wife, the the the tears and the screams and the the exacerbation and that shows you how much of that weight they had to carry by themselves.
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:33.199
Yes, they had a huge team there supporting them, but they could not let us know how upset and frustrating and scared.
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:34.000
Scared.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:40.800
It'd be one thing, Tiffany, to go to go into this trial with your defense, you would still be frightened.
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:47.119
A 20-something-year-old deputy facing, you know, another 20 years in prison away from his family.
00:34:47.119 --> 00:35:02.079
Uh, but then to go into it knowing that what you've prepared for, you can't even present, and then uh in uh, you know, and then this, and then what sort of in our opinion, the games that were being played there, and like I said, it's not even our opinion.
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:05.760
I mean, anybody listening to this would kind of shake their head of what's going on.
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:07.280
This is not unique to Seward County.
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.360
I'm telling you, we're not picking on Sewer County.
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:12.960
This is how it was Lancaster County, but yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:14.719
Yeah, I'm sorry, Lancaster County.
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:26.159
Here's here's my thing as a civilian, okay, as a civilian in a defund the police freaking world that we live in, because that is the world we live in, unfortunately.
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:37.039
The fact that 12 civilians came back with a not guilty verdict without a defense shows me that this is not just my opinion.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:43.599
What I feel, the injustice that transpired in that courtroom that week, the jury felt it too.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:50.880
They saw it because they gave a not guilty verdict with Anthony Gann not being able to defend himself.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:53.920
And then they and they decided it in two hours.
00:35:54.159 --> 00:36:06.239
In two hours, to the point where jurors came up and hugged Anthony Gann and told him they were so sorry for what he had had to go through.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:07.760
Yeah, after it was done.
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:12.559
In a world where so many people don't want to be courageous, they don't want to make decisions.
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:13.920
You have 12 jurors.
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.000
And they don't want to support law enforcement.
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:16.320
Yes.
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:22.000
You have 12 jurors that were not given the benefit of any experts to talk about what they're seeing.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:33.360
They were not given the ability to see all the information, you know, policy and training and video analysis and what Grammy Connor says, and how officers are trained in use of force, how Deputy Gann was trained in use of force.
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:39.119
They didn't have any of that information, but something happened there where they thought to themselves, this isn't right.
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:40.719
That says a lot, doesn't it?
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:41.519
Right.
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:54.079
And from what I have been in uh told is that the jury only asked one question um when they were deliberating, and it had to do with the sudden quarrel.
00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:03.760
So what this entire case came down to, in my opinion, is the lack of the fact that the defense was not allowed to offer a defense, right?
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:08.880
I think that held weight with the jury because they're like, what do you mean you don't have you're not calling any witnesses?
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:09.760
Okay, right.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:12.639
The other thing is the sudden quarrel.
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:20.719
I think the jury sat there and said, okay, so if any time a law enforcement officer interacts with a suspect, it's a sudden quarrel.
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:28.480
Then every defendant in the country is going to say, he had a vendetta against me.
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:31.440
I he hated me, he looked me out.
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.639
That is not how our law enforcement operates.
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:36.559
It's not a sudden quarrel, okay?
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:55.280
Your any interaction you have with law enforcement cannot, in a perfect world, in a world where we want our justice system to work, cannot be seen as a sudden quarrel because otherwise, how how are our law enforcement officers arresting anybody?
00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:01.039
Are they now going to be indicted every time they make an arrest?
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:04.880
Yeah, in Nebraska, this is what a sudden quarrel is by statute.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:13.920
It's considered a provocation that would cause a reasonable person to lose normal self-control and kill someone in the heat of passion.
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:25.679
I think anyone with a few brain cells would know, and the jury obviously knew that does not apply to law enforcement, but they brought that charge up, in my opinion, because there was no other charges they could have brought up.
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:36.480
This whole thing was designed to put Deputy Gann through hell, in my opinion, if you're listening, DA, in my opinion, and I don't know how you could even argue that.
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:49.519
So I definitely do feel like I I'm not gonna say that the county attorney has a personal vendetta against Deputy Gann, because I don't know that.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:39:10.719
He went out of his way to do that.
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:20.639
Well, and I think going out of his way, and what you're meaning there is, is he could have just made just so our audience knows, the DA can just make a decision not to bring charges and clear the officer.
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:22.000
That happens all the time.
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:26.000
But he made the decision to send it to a grand jury for them to make a decision.
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:40.960
So, yeah, that's that's in in my opinion, that's kind of going out of your way to bring charges because as a DA, you can look at this case, look at what the sheriff said, look at what some other opinions of experts said, and said, Yeah, there's no there's no criminal action here, and just cleared the officer right then there.
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:45.440
There's no mandate in Nebraska to send every officer involved shooting to a grand jury.
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:57.760
No, no, and the other the other thing I want to I understand that they the DA cannot pick their victim, right?
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:01.440
They don't get to pick the victim, the victim is the victim, that is the way it is.
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:05.440
But law enforcement doesn't get to pick their suspect either.
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:08.480
Okay, law enforcement doesn't get to pick.
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:23.840
Deputy Gann saw somebody breaking the law, he saw somebody breaking the law, and it is his job, and it is his duty, and it is his obligation to arrest that person or whatever, whatever they transpires.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:25.840
But that is, he doesn't get to pick the suspect.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:34.400
But the fact that Deputy Gann was not allowed, his defense was not allowed to mention that this suspect was illegal.
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:46.880
He was not allowed to mention that he was on mess, he was not allowed to mention that he, we had a a witness that was going to testify that she was being sex trafficked by the suspect.
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:52.719
She wasn't allowed to testify, she wasn't allowed to get up there and say he was sex trafficking me.
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:56.079
They were not allowed to talk about all of the drugs that were found.
00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:04.960
And in the investigation, there was a witness that that said that he had been suicidal, uh, which could have explained his his action.
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:09.519
So were were they allowed to bring that witness on?
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:21.679
Which, by the way, the reason that's important is that explains potential motive on why the suspect was acting the way suspect because if you watch this video, this suspect was really acting wild.
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:28.000
It would give almost a it would give a reasonable person, in my opinion, the belief that obviously this is dangerous.
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:31.360
Obviously, the jury agrees with me and agrees with you because they saw the video.
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:48.480
Yeah, this whole thing's insane.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:51.440
That none of that they they couldn't bring any of that information up.
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:52.559
I mean, it's just so insane.
00:41:52.559 --> 00:42:11.360
And once again, I want to just reiterate this is not just at this case, this this type of thing is occurring across law enforcement, and it makes it begs the question, Tiffany, how could a Lancaster county sworn personnel work in that county without being scared to death that they'll find themselves facing manslaughter charges?
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:13.599
In your opinion, how would you be able to do that?
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:14.800
You can't.
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:25.280
Wall that day that the jury came back was amazing for us and our relationship with WDGAN and WDGAN and his family.
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.719
It was a tragedy for law enforcement.
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:42.079
Because now every law enforcement officer in Lancaster County, in Nebraska, in the country, will hesitate before they protect themselves and others.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:46.880
They will hesitate because of this case, because this case was brought forth.
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:48.559
They will hesitate.
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:51.360
There is no way that they won't.
00:42:51.360 --> 00:43:15.679
Because now instead of just worrying about whether or not they have to hold the line and die and never see their family again to protect the public, they now have to worry about if I do go home, if I do use deadly force and make it home to my family, will I have to spend the next two years of my life fighting to not spend the next 20 years of my life in prison?
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:25.679
And I'm sorry, but the fact that the county attorney brought this case forth is going to cause all law enforcement officers to hesitate.
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:26.800
They will.
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:31.840
They're human, they will hesitate, and that is an injustice.
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:34.480
There is no that is harmful.
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:39.039
We see that in the research, we see that in the data, we see hesitation a lot.
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:43.119
Um, and it wouldn't just be a Lancaster County officer.
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:46.400
Any officer that sees this case goes, could this happen to me?
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.719
And if it happens in Nebraska, it could happen anywhere.
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:53.199
I mean, this is not like a cop hating county, right?
00:43:53.280 --> 00:44:10.559
So no, no, and the DA part of his campaign this year is that he supports law enforcement and And my question to him, if he listens to this, is please call me and explain to me how you can stand there and say that you support law enforcement after what you did to Deputy Gann.
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:12.559
You know, two things can be true at once.
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:17.840
Uh, this could be a tragedy where a man was killed, and this could be a legal justified shooting.
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:19.599
Two things can be true.
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:29.599
Um I truly believe that that is that is it is a tragedy that this man died by the hands of Deputy Gann.
00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:34.960
But at the same time, he had multiple opportunities to follow law enforcement commands.
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:40.159
The passenger exited the vehicle and followed law enforcement commands, and she's alive.
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:56.559
We have zero reason to believe that if this suspect would have shown his hands and exited the vehicle when he was asked to, that he would not be alive, hopefully sitting in prison somewhere for all of the lost Hebrew.
00:44:56.800 --> 00:45:10.800
I I have to think, I mean, I'm just gonna tell you from my heart, God was involved in this because for a jury to come back in two hours without even getting to hear a defense is uh it's pretty amazing.
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:12.000
I mean, it really is.
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.199
And so God was God was um involved in this.
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:18.960
But my question to you, Tiffany, is how can the public get involved in this?
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:21.760
Because this is not just happening in Lancaster County.
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:23.760
How can we protect our officers better?
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:26.639
How can we hold public officials accountable?
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:34.960
So, you know, I don't have a good answer for that, Travis, because I am still in shock trying to figure out how we even got here.
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:35.360
Right.
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:40.639
I am still in shock trying to figure out how did this even happen to begin with.
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:47.360
Um, so I think it it really starts with hold your public officials accountable.
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:53.599
If they say that they support something, make sure they do.
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:59.440
Make sure they do, because I'm sorry, but I do not personally believe that Pat Condon supports law enforcement.
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:16.880
I I truly believe in a defund the police world, he saw an opportunity to put a law enforcement officer in prison, and he thought that was going to help him get votes with the defund the police world we live in.
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:20.239
He I that is that is my personal belief.
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:22.960
I don't know if that's true, but that is what I believe.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:32.639
He saw an opportunity where he could get up and he could crucify a law enforcement officer and win over the defund the police public.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:37.360
Yeah, and it's hard to I I won't even try to put myself in his mind.
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:48.639
I'm not sure you have a big defund the police movement in the Omaha metropolitan area, but um, I can say this DAs are human just like police officers, and they can make mistakes.
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:57.679
Uh, I think there were multiple opportunities throughout the course of these two years for him to recognize a mistake being made, but that unfortunately didn't occur.
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:05.679
No, and like I said, during the trial, he went out of his way to not allow Deputy Gann to have a defense.
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:14.960
He went out of his way to not really like allow the jury to fully understand what being a police officer meant.
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:38.079
You know, and the the other disrespect that I truly believe, and I feel like it is worth being noted because I think it carried a lot of weight with the jury was during our closing argument, our attorney had uh put up on the screen the thin blue line flag and said, you know, Deputy Gann was holding this line.
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:44.559
That's what he was saying, and Pat Conn objected to it, and it wasn't allowed to be shown anymore.
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:48.559
He objected to the use of the thin blue line flag.
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:51.039
Because Tiffany, it's just a public quarreling charge.
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.519
I mean, it was just a barfy, right?
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:54.639
I mean, this wasn't a law.
00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:59.920
He wasn't wearing a uniform in a police car.
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:01.360
Yeah, he's not wearing a badge.
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:03.599
Come on, this is just public quarreling.
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:04.159
Yep.
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.880
The whole thing is so ridiculous, but it's not ridiculous.
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.400
But again, there was not a legal objection to that.
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:12.079
That was during our closing argument.
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:19.519
Okay, so there's he's not, we did not object, he's not supposed to be able to object during the closing argument.
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:20.400
Yeah, you're right.
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:25.119
Okay, but he did multiple times during our closing argument.
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:30.000
And it was upheld by the judge every single time.
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:33.039
Well, the jury obviously saw it.
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:34.159
Thank God they didn't.
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:35.519
I thank God they didn't.00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:39.039
And by the way, not every jury is created equal.00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:42.719
There's a lot of juries that would have, you know, rightfully just believed it, right?00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:47.840
Because unfortunately, district attorneys have a lot of credibility around the country when they say something, you know.00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:59.599
And I think that's my biggest, my biggest push for this is if you're listening to this and you're like, okay, why is she so fired up and so passionate about this?00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:01.679
He was found not guilty.00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:02.639
You're right.00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:04.559
I am passionate and I am fired up.00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:07.679
And and my friend was found not guilty, right?00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:12.320
He is living his life, he is, he is free, he is with his wife.00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:17.360
But because he was found not guilty, this still is a precedent.00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:27.039
This, what Pat Condon said during that trial, the charges he brought, those shape future cases across the nation.00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:35.039
Someday the state versus Gann case will be used in other court cases.00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:39.519
People will be reciting what happened during this case.00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:46.880
Other county attorneys will be using this case to try other officers.00:49:46.880 --> 00:50:00.800
What he says, his words matter, his objections matter, his arguments in that courtroom mattered because what he says holds weight, it shapes our justice system.00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:05.440
Well, and you say the deputy Gann is free, but uh, I want our audience to understand this.00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:11.599
He's never gonna be free again because a young deputy, I put myself in his shoes as a 20-something-year-old police officer.00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:18.960
You have a picture of what your life's gonna look like, you have a picture of what your career is gonna look like that was ripped away from him for doing his job.00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:28.400
And yeah, he's gonna obviously he's he's not in jail, and he's gonna go on to continue to live his life, but he's never gonna live his life the way him and his wife thought he was gonna live his life.00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:36.800
And that is a horrific thing to even discuss, but I think our audience needs to know that that's the repercussions of when these things happen.00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.960
Absolutely, 100%.00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:43.679
I don't know if Deputy Gann will go back into law enforcement.00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:45.199
I have no idea.00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:51.119
I know me personally as his friends, I hope he doesn't.00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:59.760
Yeah, Tiffany, I completely understand what you say, and I could I would not disagree with Deputy Gann at all if that was his decision.00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:07.519
I will tell you as an expert witness, even though your judge there didn't think I was an expert, which is crazy.00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:10.400
Uh, but and Jeff Martin is even crazier.00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:15.360
You know, say what you want about me, but uh Jeff Martin is one of the best in the business, and he was denied as well.00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:22.639
But from looking at Deputy Gann's history, his training record, um he's one hell of an officer.00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:28.639
The profession is in the community is gonna lose so much by not having him as a police officer.00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:39.280
I mean, I look I look at trainings from officers across this country on a weekly basis from an expert position to judge whether, you know, to judge how that complimented or hurt their decision making.00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:42.000
This kid had done everything right in his career.00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.679
I mean, he had taken training that most officers don't even take.00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:48.880
He had continued to take that training, he continued to certify that training.00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:51.760
It was a training above and beyond Nebraska standards.00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:53.519
He was one of the best of the best.00:51:53.519 --> 00:52:00.800
And the fact that we will potentially lose him in this profession is what is what is a huge issue that nobody wants to talk about.00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:06.400
And I I give you so much credit for being willing to talk about this because you know who's not coming on my show, Tiffany?00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:14.639
Uh, members of the ICP, members of the FOP, members of Perth, police organizations, um, other experts, other leadership people.00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:17.440
Nobody wants to talk about this truth.00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:21.440
But you, a civilian, have been so open and so willing.00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:23.519
And so I have so much respect for that.00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:26.320
And uh, I'll give you the closing words before I do.00:52:26.320 --> 00:52:29.519
Remember, give blue hope, give blue hope.org.00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:33.280
They provide financial assistance to families, the first responders kill the liner duty.00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:38.320
Go support Tiffany and what she does and give her a thank you of what she's doing here.00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:40.000
So last word, Tiffany.00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:41.119
Thank you.00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:42.639
Um, thank you for having me.00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:50.639
You know, I understand that there are a lot of people that should be coming on here and speaking about this.00:52:50.639 --> 00:53:00.159
They should be reviewing the Anthony Gann case and and being outraged and and wanting to offer, you know, their opinions on it.00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:05.360
Um, but it's like anything else with law enforcement, they don't talk about it.00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.960
They don't, they don't want to talk about it.00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:11.840
The same thing with line of duty death, they don't talk about it.00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:28.000
Um, so for me as a civilian, if I can do this, if I can get on here and talk about it and talk about my opinions as a civilian, then I'm hoping that this will bring more of our law enforcement community to want to talk about it.00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:34.559
I'm hoping that they're seeing the strength and the resilience that I have and and will say, you know what?00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:36.239
We should be talking about it.00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:39.599
We should be talking about it because this was an injustice.00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:43.840
This should terrify every law enforcement officer in the country.00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:46.480
The only way we fix it is to talk about it.00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:49.119
And so I'm such an honor and blessing to speak to you, Tiffany.00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:51.519
Give my best to Deputy Ganner and his family.00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:54.960
And uh I know you have a lot of work there to do.00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:56.159
You're passionate about this.00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:57.760
Don't ever lose that passion.00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.960
This is how we make things better in our communities and in our profession.00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:04.000
And if you've been watching, you've been listening, thank you for doing that.00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:07.440
Just remember, lead on and stay courageous.00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.400
Thank you for listening to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates.00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:17.440
We invite you to join other courageous leaders at TravisYates.org.
