Leading Large Events with Lt. John Leas

Meet John Lees And His Path

Announcement 0:01

Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice, and encouragement they need to lead courageously.

Travis Yates 0:12

Thanks for being here. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. You're going to be excited about today's guest. And on today's show, we have John Lees. He's a nationally recognized safety and security executive with more than 40 years of leadership experience in law enforcement and professional sports and entertainment security. John served 31 years with the San Diego Police Department, retiring as a police lieutenant. He led specialized units, including gangs, robbery, narcotics, task force, special events, and executive protection. Upon his retirement, he served five years as the director of security for the San Diego Padres, where he developed and managed a comprehensive safety, security, and crisis response operations for Major League Baseball games and large-scale special events there at Petco Park. And I knew John when he's with San Diego PD, and I knew and was around John when he's with San Diego Padres. I'm not trying to offend you with the hat today, John, but how are you doing, man?

John Leas 1:12

Hey, doing okay. And uh much respect to the Dodgers. They did it well.

Choosing Law Enforcement Over Music

Travis Yates 1:17

Well, I suffered and languished for about 30 years, so I don't shy away from it now. So uh we waited a very, very long time, man. So I think to get started, uh, let's go all the way back. I mean, you got into law enforcement there in Southern California, and just kind of what what was the decision-making process and and the decision on what department to go to and kind of where you landed? Kind of tell us about that.

John Leas 1:41

Well, it was interesting. My start uh actually was in high school, and the local sheriff's department, San Diego County Sheriffs, came out and did basically a uh uh an introduction to the high school students about uh possible careers as a deputy sheriff. And they had a program called Sheriff's Explorers, which is part of Boy Scouts of America. And so I jumped on board, uh, was a sheriff's explorer in Encinitas for several years, had the opportunity to uh get a job with the county marshal's office as a cadet, worked there for three years, and then I ended up getting recruited to San Diego PD in 1979, and wham, I just took off from there. But it was interesting because it all came out as a as an introduction to uh you know just law enforcement in high school. I was looking at the music industry originally uh because I was a musician and I was looking to go a different direction, but I was so enthralled when I went on ride-alongs with the deputy sheriffs up in Encinitas that it was like, oh, I gotta do this. It was an awesome time. Awesome time.

Travis Yates 2:50

Yeah, I've got a similar story. I was gonna go into something of sports or athletics, and my father was in law enforcement, started out in Southern California, actually. And my father was in law enforcement, but I didn't have any interest. And I got a job in college as a cadet. I don't know what that program was like there, but the cadet program where I grew up was you basically took and washed the Chiefs car, took as long as the dry cleaners and ran errands for the administration. You wore a little goofy uniform, but when the when the bosses went home at three or four o'clock, I had to work till seven, so I would jump in the car with one of the officers. And man, I was like, You gotta be kidding me. I had no idea. I mean, I remember looking over to a guy one day and I said, Do they pay you for this? And he goes, Twice a month, man. I said, I I don't know what it's gonna take, but I gotta do this. And so, yeah, my life, like your life, John, was radically changed. And you were involved in a lot there at San Diego, and it hadn't been tough to leave with 31 years, but you landed in a good spot and you've really become a national expert in large-scale events. Uh, did you have that interest there at San Diego? Because I know you you were involved in some large events there, I think the Republican convention, some other things. So that was percolating, and then this opportunity came up. Kind of talk to us about your interest in that because people don't know this. If you think leadership's important in a law enforcement agency, it's about 10x if you're over a large-scale event.

Discovering Special Events Operations

John Leas 4:08

Yeah, absolutely. And uh it piqued my interest, special events specifically, when I was assigned, I was in our traffic division, and my goal was to get the motors. And along the way, I had the opportunity to work our special events unit, which at the time this was about 19, uh, probably 1990. We were managing probably about eight to nine hundred events a year in the city of San Diego. And what that meant was I would be responsible for assigning officers to go work parades, runs, you name it, movie details, the whole routine. And I really got interested in it. But the one thing I noticed was there was absolutely no training for people stepping into that job. I got training from the person who had the job before me, best that he could do. And then eventually it went on. And it ultimately it segued into uh another business. But that was an exciting time for me, and I really enjoyed it. Uh, I went on uh as I left and became a lieutenant. I eventually made it to motors. I worked special events on motors for several years. Uh, had a lot of fun doing everything from presidential motorcades to, you know, you name it, uh, biotech conferences, big conferences, small conferences, runs, you name it. I was there. It was fun.

Travis Yates 5:27

It is, and I tend to agree with you. And and believe it or not, uh, Tulsa and San Diego are very similar-sized departments. And I was over special events for a while too, and the motor unit is in the same division, so I had them as well. And what was always fun about those events is you would often just see people you wouldn't normally see because people that come to events aren't the criminals that we're used to dealing with, right? They're just the they're they're running 5K runs or it's the concert that everybody's happy to be at it. So it's always a fun experience in law enforcement, but you also can't play around. And uh, and the coordination of officers, because those officers, just so our audience knows, that's not their regular assignment. They were coming to you, John, like they were coming to me as a part-time assignment, probably, right? And and that's always sort of dicey as well. But yeah, so you you you you took that experience and you took a job with San Diego Padres. And I remember I came down to a game one time, and I'm not I'm not bitter about it, but you didn't tell me how bad the parking was down there by Petco. But I I dealt with it. I got I got in the park okay. And I got to you took me back and show other stuff. But from what I understand, like you you really elevated the technology and some of the things there at San Diego when you got there. What did you find when you got there inside that ballpark?

Motors, Conventions, And Big Logistics

John Leas 6:35

Well, what was interesting was that the the folks before me that had had that director's uh position had no law enforcement experience. And the folks that hired me realized they needed that. And the most important part was the ability to bring people together from all the stakeholders, from fire rescue to PD to uh the sheriff's department in some cases, and then of course, working with everyone else within the organization, meaning the Padres organization, where you have departments within departments there putting on you know a variety of things, whether it be food and beverage or or the custodians or whatever, there were responsibilities there that we had to pull together and get everybody talking on the same page, and that was a challenge.

Travis Yates 7:22

Yeah, it really is. I'm sure you had a year or two there where you had to really sort of cobble that, but then you probably hit your stride. Probably by the time you left in five years, you had it going real well for the next guy, right?

John Leas 7:32

It it was, it was a good time. Uh, we were just it was uh it was time where we were heading into the All-Star game in 2016, and we had done all the pre-planning. I'd been in Cincinnati the year before. We actually shadowed the Cincinnati Reds the year before, which is typical uh to see how they ran operations. So we didn't make mistakes when we ran ours the next year. And it was great because I took fire rescue people with me. I took PD people with me. In fact, the gentleman I took uh with me to uh uh to Cincinnati is now the the chief of police for San Diego PD. And it was it was a lot of fun, it was a great learning experience, and it gave you the ability, and and I'll talk about this time and time again, relationships are so important. And that's how you build that that core of leadership experts together, is simply by getting together and and pulling folks together and having some tough discussions about what we can do and what we can't do.

Travis Yates 8:31

Because it is different, John. And I've tried to tell uh people that work this industry because most law enforcement that works a concert or a ball game, you can't have a law enforcement mindset. Now, you should as far as safety reasons, but it's not like you can just snatch everybody up and take them to jail. There's a little different mindset, and because they may be breaking a rule, but they may not be breaking the law. Kind of talk to our audience about that.

John Leas 8:56

Well, exactly. And it talk about a paradigm shift going from public safety to to the public sector uh private sector, and especially in sports and entertainment, because not only we were were we a baseball stadium, but we were running off-road shows, we were running USTA uh tennis uh matches, we were doing all sorts of stuff in the office.

Transition To Padres Security Leadership

Travis Yates 9:18

John, I read in your resume that you're bragging about the Taylor Swift concert there. Are you wanna you want to you want to keep that going? You want to kind of stick that? Uh uh obviously it was a huge event. Obviously. It was. I'm not saying I've been to one, but yeah, obviously it was a huge event.

John Leas 9:34

It I'll just leave it at this. It was very entertaining, and uh it it's amazing when the production team shows up with 82 tractor trailers bringing all the stage equipment and everything in to support that event.

Travis Yates 9:49

I had trouble parking in downtown San Diego. I can't imagine them. Exactly. Exactly.

John Leas 9:54

So it was fun, it was a it was a challenge. But you know, the the reality was when I I really had to step back and listen to what the organization was telling me in terms of what they wanted, they expected a lot because now they had a you know a former honorably retired police lieutenant stepping in into a position that they they embraced, and they thought that you know they were excited. And you know, we had to talk about you know such challenges as off-duty officers carrying weapons in the stadium, uh, you name it, all sorts of issues came up, and some of it was mandated locally by the organization that I worked for, some of it was mandated by Major League Baseball out of New York. So I had a lot of people to answer to, and and it was entertaining to say the least. But all in all, I found, you know, I found myself stepping back, talking to people who had done the job before me, even though they didn't have law enforcement experience. And then we had a partnership with both police and fire already built in that when I stepped into the position, everybody already knew me because of work I'd done previously and you know, decades before in the PD. So, as an example, one of my, you know, one of my jobs was executive protection and city council. And and so it was interesting when people saw me on the field, you know, pre-game, and they're going, You work here now? We thought you were still with San Diego PD. I said, No, I I retired and here I am. But it's interesting what people think you can do, you know, they they think it's all kickback, you know, put your feet up on the desk and just watch baseball and hang out with hang out with the boys. It's nothing like that.

Travis Yates 11:37

Well, I'm not gonna brag, but I you know worked security for the double A Tulsa drillers for about 10 years, and uh that pretty much was watching baseball. We didn't have any near the problems that we had. In fact, they paid me next to nothing, and they go, Well, don't you like baseball? And I would, of course, I would hang out with these coaches and stuff after the game, and this isn't gonna surprise you, John, because you were there, but uh, they crack open a few beers at the end of the game and they would let the old policeman partake and and they tell these baseball war stories, right? So, yeah, I was working for next to nothing, but uh you're right, there's a lot going on, and that's why you're so involved. And I apologize, you may be running the thing, but you're involved in these national trainings around the country on security. And I don't I think you're right. I'm not sure that even existed before John Lee got involved. Kind of talk about how the generation of that and kind of what you do when it comes to this.

Building Stakeholder Partnerships

John Leas 12:27

Well, what was interesting was when I stepped in, one of the things that I recognized pretty quickly was nobody really had a grasp of of the organizations we needed to be uh communicating with. And, you know, whether it was uh NCS4 uh or or organizations that would take folks at a variety of different levels and and give them training to prepare them to work special events. And I don't just mean, okay, just show up, you know, get your overtime and go home. But it was things like, you know, what to expect? What are preventative measures? What do you what are we doing? Why do we have fencing here? Why do we have walk through metal detectors? Uh, who trains those people? All these things all developed during my time there. We didn't have, we didn't have metal detection, walk-through metal detectors for several years until it became mandated by Major League Baseball. And with that, you know, and I'm already managing a $9.6 million budget. When I walked in the door, which was by far the biggest budget I had to manage, uh, but then as I got into it, my biggest, like most, like police departments, your biggest costs are mostly your staffing, your people. Your people are a large majority of your uh expense. And I had not only the people that showed up on game day, but I also had a security team that had to protect the facility 24-7. Because we get people, you know, being downtown San Diego and with bars close by, you get people coming out of the bars at two, three o'clock in the morning. They want to come down, jump the fence, and go run the bases at Petco Park. And so we'd every so often we'd get somebody that would, you know, come down and and do something silly like that. So your staff's got to be trained, and then you've got to have the hardware, the equipment, the, you know, uh, the uh the camera systems, the right staffing in place, people who know what they're doing with the job. And it took a while to get dialed into that. But as you mentioned, you know, a couple of years into it, I was feeling pretty good. I was able to justify budgeting for additional expenses, which was always a challenge. And then, you know, about three and a half years in, I I get a new person who's managing the budget above me come in and tell me, we're cutting you by two million dollars. Well, there was no place to cut. I was already running thin. And, you know, when our officers show up uh and come in and work an event, they're on time and a half, they're on premium overtime. So they're making like 96 bucks an hour. And then I have anywhere, I have at least one sergeant, if not two sergeants, and then probably, you know, a staff of eight, 10, or 12 uh uniformed officers, and then I have a whole entire security, private security contract force, the numbers anywhere from 60 to 80. And they're of course getting you know minimum pay there, but we've got a lot of staff on game day, and that doesn't even account for all the guest services, the folks serving food and beverage, all those people that are a whole different budget, but it's it's a nightmare to manage for sure.

Travis Yates 15:29

So there was no question that they cut your budget two million, it hurts your personnel, and it hurts the safety and security of the facility.

Private Venue Mindset Versus Policing

John Leas 15:37

It it did, and there were things that, you know, like anywhere, you want to do enhancements. You can see areas where people uh have the opportunity to jump a fence. Well, if we can fortify it some way without making it look like a prison, uh, you know, make it user-friendly, if you will, or you know, you have to put staff there during game days, then that's what you've got to do. But it was always there was constant pushback that, hey, you've got to cut your budget down, you've got to, you know, you've got to stay within the parameters, and I totally respect that. But the reality was there came a time when I had to sit down with ownership and say, you hired me as an expert to come in here and give you what I believe is the bottom line to keep this place safe. And I shared that with them. And then they started to see the force for the trees, and they were able to go ahead and start feeding funds back into me. But, you know, they're trying to put the best team on the field they can, and that costs millions of dollars to do. And, you know, I was just a small piece of the pie at Petco Park for sure.

Travis Yates 16:41

What about the terrorism threat, John? And I can only assume that when you started and when you left, that changed uh just slightly. Kind of uh was it when you got there? I mean, I would assume every facility in the country the size of Petco Park has a strong anti-terrorism type plan now. Uh, but kind of where have you seen where where have you seen the trends across the country? Because because spoiler alert, you're not with potteries anymore, but you're teaching this all over the country. So kind of talk to us about sort of the things that these events are doing with terrorism in mind.

Mega Shows And Operational Realities

John Leas 17:15

Well, it really depends on the type of events. The your your outdoor events, your events at stadiums, uh, arenas, things like that are considered soft targets in a lot of cases. Um, runs, I mean, look at the Boston Marathon as an example. That was an early on uh red flag for a lot of us, and there's been events since then. You've seen uh uh Magdeburg, uh Germany, where a crazed gentleman took a vehicle and ran it through a Christmas uh event and you know, just wiped people out. So everyone is on high alert, Travis. They're they're concerned about it. The challenge that we have is you're not quite sure where it's coming from unless you have good intelligence. How do you get that? You get that by communicating, you know, with your local uh fusion centers, your law enforcement coordinating centers, where you're you've got that partnership with local, state, and federal law enforcement Intel folks that you can talk to directly, which for me that was great because I was already embedded with these folks before I left the PD, working gangs and everything else. I'd already made these uh connections. So it was a natural to drag that in and work with, you know, uh Homeland Security, you know, work with Border Patrol in some cases, or other groups that we had just a great relationship and communications set up where we would get almost real-time information as it was happening. So it it was it it's a challenge. It's on everyone's mind. It's uh when we talk about it uh everywhere we go, every place we talk about is what can we do to protect ourselves? And you know, whether it's enhanced camera systems, whether it's better training with your staff, you know, getting them to understand what looks suspicious and what they really should be uh focusing on, as opposed to just watching a game or watching Taylor Swift sing or whatever the case might be. Folks have got to stay focused on what the mission is. And the mission is public safety is number one.

Travis Yates 19:22

Yeah, not every officer, and I just I saw this myself, so I'm sure you did, but not every officer is capable of that. Not every officer is capable of looking at the crowd in a certain way and looking for indicators in a certain way. And you, I'm sure you identified who was the best at that, and you were able to pick those out and and find those, uh, find those out. But if there's an officer listening to this and and uh they want to get better at that, what would you what would you recommend?

John Leas 19:47

Well, there's plenty of training available out there, and there's a number of ways you can get it. There's there's uh FEMA puts on great training. They they have stuff you can do online uh and and start educating yourself that way. Uh the reality is is if if they're really interested in doing special events uh and and getting into it, they need to find a way to work uh with local organizations to get a foot in the door. And a lot of times, like you say, those of us who are in the industry, whether we're on the uh the uh the private industry side or public safety side, we all as supervisors, managers, and leaders recognize those good people you're talking about. And a lot of times we'll recruit them up. We'll see them out there, we see them working in the field and other environments, and recognize this person handled that situation very smoothly without escalating it. And that's the kind of you know, self-driven leader you want to come up in the organization. So for me, I was constantly, whether it was on the PD building a gang team or a robbery team or whatever the case was, I was always picking the best of the best. And, you know, it irritated my friends who were leaders in other groups because I would want to kind of cherry pick some of their folks, but it would always be with mutual respect that, hey, we're building the best teams we can. So for those that are in the, you know, at the at the at the level where they're looking up and going, what's my next step? What do I need to do? Go out, be proactive, get training, anything related to special events. You know, I'm gonna put a plug in, come to one of our seminars and you know, special events safety seminars. We hold them all across the uh country and come in and see what's going on. It's not expensive. Come spend a couple of days. We'll take you from A to Z to what builds an event, to what makes it successful, to what makes it blow up. And we talk about all of that, and it's a great exposure to it. So that's kind of the thing that I I think is most important is people they need to get engaged instead of just being a wallflower and just hanging back and just kind of watching things. They've got to get engaged.

Travis Yates 21:52

Give us the website for that train again, John.

John Leas 21:55

Sure. It's uh uh special eventsafety.com.

Policies, MLB Standards, And Culture

Travis Yates 22:00

Gotcha. Yeah. Special EventStage.com. We'll put that in the show notes. But uh great events. I've I've seen John do those for a number of years. Find yourself, find your way and do that. And and John, I don't want to put you on a spot, but I'm just going to I'm just going to ask you a few fire-off questions here. So you were around countless celebrities, countless people that our audience is going to know. If you were to, if you had the opportunity to go have a beer and hang out with any one of them because they're really nice, who would it be?

John Leas 22:29

Well, you know, I've got I've got to say, uh, although uh I had the uh honor of uh, if you will, uh hanging out with Charlie Sheen for a bit, his father, Martin Sheen, who got lost and ended up in Mexico trying to get to our event, was truly a gentleman and just a wonderful individual. But uh, you know, one who really stands out and who's got an awesome foundation is Gary Sinise.

Travis Yates 22:58

Yep.

John Leas 22:59

Gary is just a wonderful individual. He came, uh brought his band and played at Petco Park, and just a wonderful, wonderful individual. And and uh it was a pleasure talking and meeting him. And uh, I gotta say, uh probably top class act was that gentleman right there, Gary.

Travis Yates 23:18

Yeah, I've actually heard both those names before in the same light. So you've got to be telling us the truth. And you don't have to answer this if you don't want, but if there's somebody you never want to have coffee with, who would it be? Taylor Swift. Come on, are you serious? Yeah, yeah. I uh I'm over it. I'm over it. Okay, no, no bitterness there. Well, John, my kids will hate to hear that, but then again, I won't tell them, and they don't listen to this old man's show either. But man, I I really appreciate you being on. It's such a unique topic that I don't think we think about a lot. And I think even the people in law enforcement think, oh, I'll just go work that event and get my time and a half and not worry about it. But you have to think to yourself, where there's large crowds, that's where the devil sometimes comes to play, and you have to be prepared for it.

John Leas 24:02

Absolutely. And and the real reality is people uh for those folks that are in the law enforcement industry right now and are kind of looking for what do I do next after I retire or I move on, or maybe they're looking for a new challenge in life, is if they get involved with special events like I did, um, there's a whole arena of things they can do in the future that will take them off in a completely different direction that they'll really enjoy. So, you know, I encourage it. Um, they're always welcome to reach out to me. Um, I've mentored a few folks along the way, uh, and there are folks out there that uh have done the same for me. And uh again, I return the favor as much as I can to help folks out. And uh like I say, uh I'm always here for folks. So if you anything I can do to help out, I'm all I'm happy to do it.

Travis Yates 24:53

Well, John Lee is humble. I know a lot about his background. He's he does he's done way more, and he's a much cooler guy than he came off on this show. He's a humble guy. And John, I can't thank you enough for being here and spending some time with us today. Oh, it's my pleasure.

John Leas 25:06

I appreciate it.

Training, Tech, And 24/7 Coverage

Travis Yates 25:07

And if you've been watching and you've been listening, thank you for being here. And just remember lead on and stay courageous.

Announcement 25:15

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