Jan. 12, 2026
A Cop's Life with Travis Yates and Randy Sutton
The player is loading ...
Send us a text Lt. Randy Sutton and Dr. Travis Yates challenge the myths driving modern policing, from failed recruiting tactics to political mandates that increase officer injuries, and lay out practical, data-led ways to keep officers and communities safer. Dr. Travis Yates shares research, real numbers, and steps leaders can take now. • why marketing fails and targeted recruiting works • cost-per-hire math and fixing vacancies with data • retention linked to leadership support and culture...
Lt. Randy Sutton and Dr. Travis Yates challenge the myths driving modern policing, from failed recruiting tactics to political mandates that increase officer injuries, and lay out practical, data-led ways to keep officers and communities safer. Dr. Travis Yates shares research, real numbers, and steps leaders can take now.
• why marketing fails and targeted recruiting works
• cost-per-hire math and fixing vacancies with data
• retention linked to leadership support and culture
• rising assaults since 2020 and what precedes violence
• de-escalation mandates vs evidence and injury spikes
• pre-attack indicators and responding to noncompliance
• politics, optics, and training trade-offs
• chiefs vs sheriffs and accountability to the public
• practical steps officers can take for safety and training
• where to find Travis’ research and future courses
This podcast is sponsored by The Wounded Blue - thewoundedblue.org - A nationwide charity helping more than 16,000 American law enforcement officers injured either physically or emotionally and psychologically. If you’re a law enforcement officer, don’t walk this journey alone.
Join Our Tribe of Courageous Leaders:
Get The Book
Get Weekly Articles by Travis Yates
Join Us At Our Website
Get Our 'Courageous Leadership' Training
Join The Courageous Police Leadership Alliance
Chapters
00:00 - Opening And Guest Introduction
03:10 - Travis Yates’ Path Into Policing
06:15 - Ride-Alongs And Choosing The Job
09:30 - Tulsa Career Scale And Context
11:20 - The Recruiting Crisis And Pivot
16:20 - Data-Driven Recruiting vs Branding
20:25 - Retention, Leadership, And Support
24:30 - Break And Return To Leadership Failures
27:05 - Assaults On Officers And Rising Risks
30:00 - De‑Escalation Mandates Under The Microscope
35:10 - What The Research And Videos Reveal
39:20 - Politics, Optics, And Training Time
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:03.279
They see it all.
00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.719
The broken lives and the pain of the victims.
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:12.000
The cruelty of the criminals and heroism of those who serve behind the badge.
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.759
Hear their stories and listen to their hearts.
00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:18.640
This is a cop's life.
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:22.480
Hello and welcome to another episode of A Cop's Life.
00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:45.920
I'm your host, Randy Sutton, 34-year law enforcement veteran, retired police lieutenant from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, the author of a number of books, including the recently released Rescuing 911, The Fight for American Safety, at uh number one Amazon bestseller, and of course the uh book, A Cop's Life, which just happens to be the name of the show.
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:55.759
Um, on this on this podcast, you'll hear perspectives from law enforcement professionals and people involved in policing that you won't hear anywhere else.
00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:59.439
And I am uh proud to also be the founder of the Wounded Blue.
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:14.719
The Wounded Blue is the national assistance and support organization for injured and disabled law enforcement officers, a nationwide charity that's helped more than 16,000 American law enforcement officers injured either physically or psychologically in the line of duty.
00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.920
Today I have an incredible guest.
00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:26.480
He's been on our show before, uh, but his perspectives are uh are something that uh every American needs to hear.
00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:28.959
And his name is Travis Yates.
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:31.599
Travis, welcome to this show.
00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:33.519
Thanks for having me, Randy.
00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:34.400
It's certainly an honor.
00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:44.159
So I want to I want to just uh read briefly your bio, a little bit about your bio, because I because if I read everything in your bio, we wouldn't have any time to have any discussion.
00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:44.959
We don't need to do that.
00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:45.120
Right.
00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:49.280
But but I do want the audience to know a little bit about you.
00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.000
Dr.
00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:58.719
Travis Yates, by the way, he's also a doctor, is one of the most prolific writers in law enforcement and one of the most popular speakers in the industry.
00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:09.680
Over the last two decades, his seminars on risk management, officer safety, and leadership have been given to thousands of law enforcement professionals across the globe, including 45 states.
00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:17.840
His articles have been read by millions of people, and his leadership principles have been adopted by countless law enforcement leaders across the globe.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:26.319
He's been published hundreds of times in various publications, including the Daily Caller, Law Officer Magazine, Police One.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:37.759
Uh his expertise in various areas of law enforcement has been featured in media outlets such as Fox News, CNN, ABC, USA Today, Associated Press, and many others.
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:39.360
And I could go on and on.
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:42.000
Travis Yates, welcome to a cop's life.
00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:43.840
Man, it's an honor, Randy.
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:45.439
Um thanks for having me.
00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:56.960
So there you and I have had so many discussions, um, and and your perspectives are um are something that I really need to be shared with the American people.
00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.319
But first, let's talk a little bit about your police career.
00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:07.520
Um, let's talk about why you became a cop to begin with, and just a quick rundown of your police career.
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.479
Well, it was kind of improbable, but it shouldn't have been.
00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:11.759
My father was in law enforcement.
00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:23.599
He started with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and ended up somehow I ended up in Forcement, Arkansas as a young kid, and he went to work there in law enforcement, and he retired there after 26, 27 years.
00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:25.120
So I grew up around him.
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:27.520
I grew up around his friends and his co-workers.
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.759
I didn't need Superman, Superman or Batman.
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:32.719
I mean, I I thought these guys were just heroes and studs, you know.
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:34.960
But I didn't really have an interest in going into the profession.
00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.080
I had other interests, and he never pushed one way or the other.
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:42.879
So I was in college, I was 19 years old, and I went on a police ride-along.
00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:48.560
And it was one of these ride-alongs that, you know, like in your show Cops, you know, it was like a condensed version of cops.
00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.039
Like everything just happened in this eight hours.
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:52.080
I mean, everything.
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.439
I remember looking over at the guy and I said, Do they pay you for this?
00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:56.960
And he goes, twice a month.
00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:58.560
I said, Man, I gotta do that.
00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.439
You know, and I changed my degree, I changed the direction of my life.
00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.000
It wasn't that ride-along, meaning you wouldn't be talking the day.
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.479
Who knows what I'd be doing or where I would be?
00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:10.879
And so I didn't know other, I didn't know anything other than that I wanted to experience that.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:17.920
It was kind of the closest thing to a uh competitive, uh you know, athletic type of background.
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:22.319
I hear, I hear your partner in the background.
00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:24.480
I hope you can post edit.
00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:25.759
Can you post edit?
00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:26.399
No.
00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:28.800
Okay, I'm sorry.
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:36.560
Um it was as close to it was as close to anything from uh you know my athletic background as I could get, you know.
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:41.360
It almost I wouldn't say a brotherhood, but it was just so different than any other job I'd ever had.
00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.000
And so I didn't know a lot, Randy, but I just started applying.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:46.319
Tulsa, Oklahoma was the first one that gave me a shot.
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:53.519
I started there when I was 21 years old, worked my way through the ranks, just sort of did what I saw my dad do, try to work hard and do the right thing.
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.040
I accomplished that sometimes.
00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:56.319
Sometimes I failed.
00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.800
And uh I did 30 years uh in all sorts of different assignments along the way.
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:12.720
I started uh training other officers and consulting agencies outside of Tulsa, which is kind of a weird thing for me at the time, but it just I kept getting phone calls and I kept traveling and kept doing it, and I met people like you.
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:18.879
And, you know, I sort of blink, and 30 years later I retired, and now I do the consulting and training full time.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:28.959
You know, I I wanted to just touch on one thing, um, how you began your police career, and I and this is something that I urge all of my listeners and viewers to consider.
00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:34.480
Um, almost every police agency allows ride-alongs for for civilians.
00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:40.800
And I urge every American to do a ride-along with their local police agency.
00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:50.079
They'll see things that um that will that will change their lives and will give them um uh a different view on law enforcement.
00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:52.800
So that's those that's one I wanted to throw that in.
00:05:52.800 --> 00:06:03.680
It just shows uh how effective that the ride-alongs can be when it comes down to um you know showing a uh a young man like yourself a career path.
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:12.800
So yeah, it was it was an amazing experience, and I often would do those ride-alongs for other people when I was on the job because I saw the importance it made in me.
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:18.560
I and I would tell people if they were serious about going into this job, do two or three ride-alongs, because not every shift's the same.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:22.000
Uh, but uh they'll know pretty immediately whether it's for them or not.
00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:23.439
Yeah, I I agree.
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:29.759
So let's talk about um, I mean, you your your your career with the Tulsa Police Department.
00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.199
Tulsa's a big agency.
00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:34.240
How many, how many officers were uh were there when you left?
00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.560
Well, they swung between 700 and 900 during my career.
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.560
They're on the they're on the lower end at this time, but that's kind of where they swung between 700 and 100.
00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.759
It's the second largest agency in the state next to Oklahoma City.
00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.839
And let's talk about that that fact that they're on the lower end.
00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:51.279
This is about recruitment.
00:06:51.279 --> 00:07:03.279
Now, you and I have had discussions about this before, and you're very focused on recruitment as um as an issue that's facing it's a crisis in American law enforcement.
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:09.120
Um, and so you're you're you're taking a very proactive approach to that recruitment issue.
00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:11.600
If you would, let's talk about that for a moment.
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.319
You know, I'm in the leadership space, but I'm a little different than most of the people in the leadership space.
00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:22.399
You know, most people in the leadership space are out to, you know, make money, tell some war stories, and be on the road 200 days a year.
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.360
I'm kind of in the in the space that I want to solve problems.
00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:28.560
I want to speak about leadership and leadership that solves problems in practicality.
00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:35.040
And because of that, uh, I co-founded an actual recruiting company for law enforcement when I retired called Safeguard Recruiting.
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.759
And because I knew in the profession we were doing it wrong.
00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:42.160
You know, uh, first off, we hired what 100,000 cops in 94, 95 with the cops grant.
00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:43.600
And then what happens 30 years later?
00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:45.519
Oh, they all happened to start retiring.
00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:46.800
What happens at the same time?
00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.160
Oh, yeah, we have this thing called 2020 happen and all this nonsense, right?
00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.639
And so I knew that that was happening, but I didn't see law enforcement pivot.
00:07:54.639 --> 00:08:00.720
What I did see some law enforcement do is they started spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars on marketing and branding.
00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.160
Well, you're never going to brand your way out of what the news media does to law enforcement.
00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:05.439
You have to actually recruit.
00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.639
And so we understand that at the executive level, Randy.
00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:18.240
Like if you if a large city needs a chief or a deputy chief, they hire a recruiting company, a headhunter company, to go out and find qualified people for that job.
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:25.439
But then when it comes to the most important aspect of law enforcement, the line officer, we think we can brand our way to full staffing.
00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:27.040
And so I knew we were doing it wrong.
00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.439
I couldn't get many people to listen to me when I was on the job.
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:34.879
So once I was retired, I was free and uh to help develop this company, co-founded it.
00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:37.279
And uh it has been unbelievable.
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:45.120
Uh we have got clients all over the country, Cleveland, Philadelphia, uh huge departments that everybody just said was dead and gone.
00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.080
They're all coming back.
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.799
In fact, IECP just featured Cleveland this morning.
00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.360
Their applications are up just shy of 300%.
00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.440
They don't mention us, but they've hired us in the last year to actually do that.
00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:59.840
And so we go out and we target people that want to work for civic departments.
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.759
And there is a leadership component.
00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:06.240
The leadership component is this you have to make the correct decisions when it comes to recruiting.
00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:11.679
Stop going to job fairs, stop doing what we did in the 90s, stop the throwing up billboards and bus ads.
00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.320
You're going to spend a lot of money for very little return.
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:21.360
We've done it so much, Randy, is I can tell you exactly what it's going to cost if you tell me how many officers you need.
00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:28.240
I mean, you're still doing the academy and you're still doing the background checks, but I the sourcing of the actual officers, because we've got the data down.
00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:36.960
I can tell you, you know, I just recently had a department that called me, they were down 50 officers, and they were spending, I think, $3 million a year on hireback shifts.
00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.360
Well, that's $50,000 and you're fixed.
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:40.960
It's about $1,000 a hire.
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:42.960
You know, $50,000, you're fixed.
00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:47.679
And the chief is just like, well, we were hoping you do a website or I'm like, listen, this is a leadership issue.
00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:50.320
If you don't want to make the right decision, good luck with that.
00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:59.840
But uh I certainly am very hopeful because we've been able to fix some of the worst departments out there that thought, I mean, Philadelphia was down 1,200 people when they hired us.
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:01.440
And this isn't a pitch for safe car.
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.919
I mean, you can go to our website and we tell you how to do this in our podcast and our videos.
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:10.960
This is not rocket science, or I couldn't be involved in it, but we just make it very easy for people to do.
00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:37.600
So well, you know, let's talk about how important this is because we have seen uh a dramatic um crisis in law enforcement beginning in the in in the early 2020s when of course the uh the you know the cities of of America burned and uh we we saw we saw law enforcement leadership fail in so many ways, uh not just law enforcement leadership, but political leadership as well.
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:45.200
And so now um, you know, the major cities in in America are facing a crisis of numbers.
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:46.240
They don't have enough.
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:56.960
I mean, I mean, I just uh um read about Minneapolis, which of course is the is the center stage for ineptness and and competence and law enforcement leadership.
00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:02.879
They're down so many people that they can't even respond to their 911 calls in a timely fashion.
00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:17.120
So this is truly a crisis, and you're one of the few law enforcement leaders out there that is that is take taking a proactive approach and looking at this this issue and coming up with solutions for it.
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:22.159
So that's why but but we're I mean let's look at the realities, Travis.
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.639
People are dying because of this.
00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:29.279
This isn't this isn't just an some esoteric thought process.
00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:36.320
This isn't this is a crisis that's costing American lives and police lives at the same time.
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:45.200
Here's what these cities are seeing, and by the way, Minneapolis may be the first major city to go under, go bankrupt because they're not they're not reversing their ways.
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.919
Uh and that's obviously a whole show in itself.
00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:52.879
But what we're seeing is, Randy, about 70 to 80 percent of recruiting just happens.
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.720
That's people, it's in them, they want to be police officers, they're gonna apply.
00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.960
You don't have to do anything to get them, right?
00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.600
But you've got to change your ways for the other 20 or 25 percent.
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:11.200
And it it's even exasperated with the most important aspect that if you're on the job, the why you stay on the job, retention.
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:16.799
So if your retention is terrible, people aren't staying 20, 25, 30 years, it hurts the front end.
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:23.600
Uh, the data that we have says that if you start, if if you start a law enforcement today, 62% of those officers will not make it to five years.
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:24.720
And here's why.
00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:25.440
Here's why.
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:28.799
Don't blame a generation because I hear people saying that those are excuses.
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:37.120
The number one thing that any any employee wants across all industries, and Gallup will tell you this every year, it's not pay, it's not salary, it's not benefits.
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.759
Am I supported by my leaders?
00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:48.000
So if I could give leaders one suggestion to help with your recruiting, support your officers, do the right thing.
00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.919
People will work for you for that.
00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:54.159
But if you don't do that, gone are the days where people just suck it up, buttercup, you're gonna stay.
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.559
Randy, you know, my generation, we almost it was the game on how bad they would treat us, right?
00:12:58.559 --> 00:12:59.519
That toxic leadership.
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:00.720
We were gonna stay no matter what.
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:01.679
We were stubborn.
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:03.039
Not these kids today.
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:05.759
They're not gonna put up with it, so we have to change our ways.
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:11.039
So support your officers, let them know you care for them, and then watch what happens.
00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:17.200
You won't lose so many on the back end, and it doesn't hurt you so much on the front end, and you don't have to recruit as much.
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:22.000
Well, we're we're gonna get into uh some of the reasons behind that right after the break.
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.120
We're gonna take a quick break and we will be right back.
00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:29.759
We're back with Travis Yates, Dr.
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:37.360
Travis Yates, retired police major and uh law enforcement leader of uh exceptional value, I might say.
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:42.240
Let's talk about the about the the leadership and the and the lack of support.
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:55.519
Uh I too, you know, in my in my uh career as a law enforcement uh leader as well as the founder of the Wounded Blue, uh I I hear literally every single day uh that this topic comes up.
00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:17.279
And one of the things that I know you're very, very passionate about is about officer safety and and how uh our officers um, you know, we've seen a the number uh of officers killed in the line of duty diminish over the last few years, but that's not because the attacks are stopping or or slowing.
00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:21.679
Almost every single day, Travis, a police officer is being shot in the line of duty.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:30.399
And you and I both know this that last year, um, more than 85,000 American law enforcement officers were physically assaulted in the line of duty.
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:35.279
They were shot, they were stabbed, they were beaten, they were hit with bricks, they were kicked, they were bunched.
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:42.000
And and that's an astounding number and a dramatic increase since 2020.
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:51.519
And one of the one of the the factors that um that we have seen has been this move of quote de-escalation.
00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:52.879
Let's talk about that.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:15:08.799
I know you've studied this, that you're very passionate about it, and the realities that uh uh about about the the training that law enforcement agencies are giving their officers that are maybe leading to these assaults and these deaths.
00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:14.720
Well, I would challenge anybody listening or watching, find someone talking about this other than Randy and I.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:19.200
Uh Randy, we there has been an increase in officer assaults every year since 2020.
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.480
We've never seen that before.
00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.159
And last year was an all-time high.
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:25.200
By the way, that 85,000 number you mentioned, that's underreported.
00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.440
About 50% of the departments don't report the data.
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.360
And as you know, officers get assaulted all the time and it's not reported in reports.
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.919
Uh so uh no one's talking about this.
00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:38.960
And I just I just come from this solution based where I go, well, why is this happening and what can we do about it?
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:44.960
I taught this class for about the last 15 years called Seconds for Survival because it's not about the attack that I'm worried about.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:48.960
I'm worried about what's happening before the attack because I want to prevent the attack against the officer.
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:58.320
And so, and and everybody listening to this, even civilians know this that before violence occurs, typically there's what we call pre-attack indicators or pre-game indicators.
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.159
It's just a psychological response from the body.
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.240
People actually make a decision to do something before they do it, and the body gives you signs.
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.600
They may be looking around, their hands may go in their pockets, they may blade away from you.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.080
So I've really enjoyed teaching this class throughout the years.
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:11.440
I've been all over teaching it.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:17.279
But in recent years, what I have found, Randy, is officers used to say, Well, hey, this is a great refresher.
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:18.159
It's a great reminder.
00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:18.559
Thank you.
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.840
Well, in the last five years, I've had officers tell me, I've never heard of this before.
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.600
And I'll go, what do you mean you haven't heard of this before?
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:28.080
When I would dive deeper, I'm finding out that they're being trained, but they're not being trained in this.
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.159
They're being trained in actually the exact opposite.
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:34.639
We're trained to de-escalate and to talk to them and to try to, you know, time and distance and all this stuff.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:39.360
Now, that stuff may be fine and dandy on a on a non-violent type call.
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:43.919
But what I have found, and I'm gonna tell you how I found it in a minute, is that stuff is deadly.
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:52.080
Uh, many, many states uh in post-2020, about a dozen states passed mandatory de-escalation laws for law enforcement.
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.600
And for those states, I found published data.
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.799
I found officer injury rates and use of force rates.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:13.440
Do you know, Randy, that in every state that published the data, after they passed mandatory de-escalation laws inside their policy, this is every agency in that state, uh, their officer injury rate spiked, their use of force spiked.
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.480
In fact, I mean, I can tell you about individual departments.
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:22.319
Chicago police just there was this big article in the Tribune about we don't understand why our use of force keeps increasing.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.920
We passed all these reforms.
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:25.920
That's why it's actually increasing.
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.359
So I got in my mind to start doing some deep research on this.
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:30.720
And what I found is a couple things.
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:36.079
Number one, uh, I wouldn't recommend a doctor's degree for anybody, but the one thing it did do is it taught me how to do research.
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.480
It taught me how to read research because not every research is actually fair and unbiased, right?
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.799
And so I started diving into this.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:46.000
Here's the first thing I found, and I'll just read you the quote, Dr.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.240
Robin Ingle from peer-reviewed journals.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:54.960
The quote is de-escalation training has not been subjected to rigorous scientific testing.
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:58.880
So this whole thing called de-escalation has never been proven.
00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:09.119
And and not only has it not been proven, I have gone back five years for every public domain used to force video, specifically officers shot or officer shot at.
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:10.160
There's hundreds of them.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:13.119
And no one's done this before, which kind of blows my mind, Randy.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.599
And I've looked at all of them and I've analyzed all of them.
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.920
De-escalation hasn't worked in any of them.
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:35.440
And so what that tells me is de-escalation may be fine when there's non-violent type action or behavior going on, but you better not do it if you don't, because when I compare those videos to the videos where it may have been a violent encounter, but violence didn't occur, those officers are actually acting quicker.
00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.880
As soon as they see an indicator, they're putting handcuffs on them or getting distanced.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.319
They quit talking to them.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.960
And so we've it's it's it's it's hard for people to hear this.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:46.640
We've got this wrong.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:56.480
If our goal is to reduce use of force and our goal is to reduce officer injury, bringing de-escalation to a gun or knife fight only exasperates that.
00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:03.279
00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.719
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:12.000
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.759
00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:18.640
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:22.480
00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:45.920
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:55.759
00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:59.439
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:14.719
00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.920
00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:26.480
00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:28.959
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:31.599
00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:33.519
00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:34.400
00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:44.159
00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:44.959
00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:45.120
00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:49.280
00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.000
00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:58.719
00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:09.680
00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:17.840
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:26.319
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:37.759
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:39.360
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:42.000
00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:43.840
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:45.439
00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:56.960
00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.319
00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:07.520
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.479
00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:11.759
00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:23.599
00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:25.120
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:27.520
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.759
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:32.719
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:34.960
00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.080
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:42.879
00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:48.560
00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.039
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:52.080
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.439
00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:56.960
00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:58.560
00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.439
00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.000
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.479
00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:10.879
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:17.920
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:22.319
00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:24.480
00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:25.759
00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:26.399
00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:28.800
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:36.560
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:41.360
00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.000
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:46.319
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:53.519
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.040
00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:56.319
00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.800
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:12.720
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:18.879
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:28.959
00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:34.480
00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:40.800
00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:50.079
00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:52.800
00:05:52.800 --> 00:06:03.680
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:12.800
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:18.560
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:22.000
00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:23.439
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:29.759
00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.199
00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:34.240
00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.560
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.560
00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.759
00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.839
00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:51.279
00:06:51.279 --> 00:07:03.279
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:09.120
00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:11.600
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.319
00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:22.399
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.360
00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:28.560
00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:35.040
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.759
00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:42.160
00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:43.600
00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:45.519
00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:46.800
00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.160
00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.639
00:07:54.639 --> 00:08:00.720
00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.160
00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:05.439
00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.639
00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:18.240
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:25.439
00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:27.040
00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.439
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:34.879
00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:37.279
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:45.120
00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.080
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.799
00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.360
00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.440
00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:59.840
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.759
00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:06.240
00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:11.679
00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.320
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:21.360
00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:28.240
00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:36.960
00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.360
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:40.960
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:42.960
00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:47.679
00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:50.320
00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:59.840
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:01.440
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.919
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:10.960
00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:37.600
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:45.200
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:46.240
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:56.960
00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:02.879
00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:17.120
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:22.159
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.639
00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:29.279
00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:36.320
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:45.200
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.919
00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:52.879
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.720
00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.960
00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.600
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:11.200
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:16.799
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:23.600
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:24.720
00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:25.440
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:28.799
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:37.120
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.759
00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:48.000
00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.919
00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:54.159
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.559
00:12:58.559 --> 00:12:59.519
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:00.720
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:01.679
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:03.039
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:05.759
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:11.039
00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:17.200
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:22.000
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.120
00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:29.759
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:37.360
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:42.240
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:55.519
00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:17.279
00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:21.679
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:30.399
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:35.279
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:42.000
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:51.519
00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:52.879
00:14:52.879 --> 00:15:08.799
00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:14.720
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:19.200
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.480
00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.159
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:25.200
00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.440
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.360
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.919
00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:38.960
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:44.960
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:48.960
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:58.320
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.159
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.240
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.600
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.080
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:11.440
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:17.279
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:18.159
00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:18.559
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.840
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.600
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:28.080
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.159
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:34.639
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:39.360
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:43.919
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:52.080
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.600
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.799
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:13.440
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.480
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:22.319
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.920
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:25.920
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.359
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:30.720
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:36.079
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.480
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.799
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:46.000
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.240
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:54.960
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:58.880
00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:09.119
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:10.160
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:13.119
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.599
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.920
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:35.440
00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.880
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.319
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.960
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:46.640
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:56.480